Interview By Warren Moore Of Molly Blankenship and Ben Bridges...to see if the jitney was coming before we crossed that trestle. They had the town up there at Ravensford, they had, I guess, in that plant a big logging operation, boarding houses, a general merchandise stores and like a restaurant (a cafe as they call it now), and people made their living up there, after World War Ij that was a booming town. As I say, all I can remember them talking about is having movies up there; they had a movie theater. You know, that was something back then. Anyway, Georgia remembers that. Well that's a good person to remember, Georgia Blankenship. Now she isn't an Indian, but she's lived here all her life. But you might get someone who is Indian that would give more of an Indian perspective. Like I said, they used to have general merchandise stores. One place is, you know where you cross the bridge and one way you go to the Big Cove and the other way you go straight through it, they had a big store right there on the bank of the river. Of course, at Smokemont; I remember Smokemont because it was the last place they sold beer in this area. Well, the interesting thing about this to me is she knows all the folks, as far as tribal government, cause Molly's been on a council; she's worked for the Bureau for a number of years, and she's seen all these superintendents come and go, good, bad and indifferent, the chiefs and elected officials. And because of being involved with realty, has also been in the center of the storm really because almost all disputes sooner or later revolved about some land. There've been so many things happen in the council, it's hard not to remember.
\. -2- Well, you know, zer fell off that he'd go to sleep and they've got rollers on their chairs; the step was right he was right at the end of the room. One leg of his chair rolled and he just pitched out onto the floor. And he is really a conservative full-blood from Robbinsville, speaks broken English. Bet he was embarrassed. Yeh, he was embarrassed. They kidded him for years about that. Can I call you tomorrow? What's your phone number? U97-9131, extension 220. We have two Mollys in here, so Blankenship... They have built 1200 or U4OO homes on reservations. All this complex over here now there's their CETA(?) office, but basically these buildings all have to do with the Cherokee Boys Club. That is somebody you might try to interview, Ray Kinsman, who runs that. It's a $0 year old organization that started out as a boys farm club or something like that. Now that's obviously the police and fire station and we're planning on building an extension onto that for the court facilities. Now then the Chiltowskis live down here on the left; Molly does too, right down here somewhere close. These little businesses have sprung up in the last year or two. The motel's been there awhile, but everything else is relatively recent. Now this round building up here is part of what was back in the early '60s somebody came in here to make this a really big place; they were going to build a big amusement center and call if Cherokee Wonderland. And this was before Disneyland was built. There's their high school. But, you see, that's a $7.5 million high school. They had to scrimp to keep the thing operated; then Reagan's Administration cutting all the money. All this development
-3- out here is basically tribally owned or operated. How about the stuff on the big strip, the other strip, is that tribally owned, also? Some. The last time I saw any figures on it, the tribal members own or operate a little better than 65% of the businesses on those. But this is the Saunook family that runs most of these things, or they lease them out. They can't run all these little shops. Now we're heading toward what is called Big Cove. There are a lot of stories still that a white man doesn't go in Big Cove alone at night. I've heard people tell me that sort of thing the last year or two, folks over in Jackson County. It' s like Little Canada, people have said watch out going over there, too. All these streams, of course, they've stocked with trout for the tourists in the summer. Now this is an apartment complex built he's not really an Indian. That brick house was, I think, his daughter married a man who came back in the tribal government, or something, and built some of these apartments because there really were no places for people to live, except to have their own house; there was nothing to rent. And so he's built those. But these little tract houses that you see, some of them frame, some of them brick, those are all those Housing Authority houses. And they probably still have over there; they can show you photographs of all the old houses that they just destroyed. When they started that program, oh in the late '60s, I guess, or early '70s, there were just tremendous numbers of houses that still had dirt floor, no plumbing. Bain McCoy, he could tell you; he was born and raised in a log cabin with a dirt floor and no running water and had to go to the spring to get water. So these Indians on this reservation, some of
these people who are as young as McCoy, who may be UO; and he has come from there to basically being Chairman of the Tribal Council and going around the country and travelling and appearing on network television, s tuff like that. This is an area of land that belongs to the Park. The tribe has been trying to negotiate all this flat land, this bottom land down here but we've been trying to negotiate a land swap in some way with the Park so that the tribe can build a good golf course here and have something else to bring tourists here, hold golf tournaments and things like that. But the Park Service is hard to deal with; it'll take us ten or fifteen years. But, of course, we're not on the reservation. There's another little separate piece of the reservation up here on Big Cove, so it's separated by this little narrow strip of Park land. So it would make sense to have that. Exactly. How did it get separated like that? Well, when they got the land, they got the land deeded to the tribe from individuals, so apparently Indian people never owned this land. Molly being in realty knows more than any other single person about the land and the reservation and that sort of thing. But this is gorgeous in about two or three weeks; you ought to try to come back then about the second and third week in October. The leaves are already turning. Yeh, you can see up at the top they'll start. And during October you can always find color; it just depends on whether you want to go up high or low. Now this is River Valley Campground. This is Jerome Parker. Jerome is, I think, one-eighth Indian, so he's not full-blooded. oriented and he's built this very nice little campground. He's business That water slide
-5- hasn't been a moneymaker; it's kind of slowed down, but it was one of the early ones. It's got a waterfall; so he's got just this little cove here in the valley. Carl Lambert, he knows the history. Because I want to use mainly just quotations, excerpts from people's interviews as the text of the book, so somebody who could tell me about the history would be perfect. He'd have some quotations. His brother called him; he lives in Michigan somewhere; he called him and said he was getting ready to retire; what's the best thing can I do. Should I come home, or what? Carl told him, "Go the other way." I would advise a person that really wants to get ahead, as far as business, job opportunity, I would say move away. Cause there just aren't many here? Not the type of people that we need, engineers or medical doctors, dentists, what have you. Those are not here. We don't have many of those people. A lot of people get into that and then get away from here. We've got to use the Bingo Hall for this motorcycle group coming in. It'll all be over by Sunday. Then Monday and Tuesday, I don't have anything. Could I give you a call to set up... It'd be better to call my wife. Call her at her office. She works in the health office, Pat McCoy, k97-9u65. See, I run for Chief: missed it by 7 votes. And it's not because I didn't work or anything, or it wasn't the peoples' choice. There was too many people running and the present chief that was in at that time and myself got into it campaigning against each other, and let this man slip in the back door on us.
McCoy: How long were you on the Tribal Council? I served for 10 years as a Council member, 2-year terms at a time. Out of those 10 years, I served k years as the Chairman of the Council. And speaking in terms of a totem pole, you might say, I was third man on the pole. You've got the Chief, the Vice Chief, and Chairman of the Council. Gosh and you were so young, too. McCoy: I'm 62 right now I turn Ul tomorrow. My brother's birthday's today and mine's tomorrow. He was bom on the 26th and two years later I was born on the 27th. I come from a kind of huge family. There was 12 of us children. There are only 9 of us left, but there was 12 of us to start with. And Ben was saying you grew up in a house with a dirt floor and no running water. Is that right? McCoy: I grew up in a house, never did have a dirt floor, but it was a log house and had a good floor in it, but didn't have no running water. I remember carrying water a lot of times. McCoy: Had to go to the spring? Uh huh. Didn't have a bathroom; had to go to an outhouse. I remember in the wintertime, it'd be cold and we'd get up and fix breakfast in the morning; had to break the ice to get water. Of course, there's a lot of people had to do that around here. McCoy: Things sure have changed, though, haven't they? I'm glad I grew up that way; and I don't regret it a bit. Sometimes I wish it was still that way. But I've got to come up there and talk with you [Ben]. I've got a scheme; we've got to do the legal research first. I've got two schemes, one of them'11 employ about 50-65 people and that's printing Bingo paper supplies. And there's only two printers in the United States.
-7- Well, you know the Boys Club is getting that new printing press, $1*00,000 worth of printing equipment, so you would have a ready source on the reservation; they could do the printing for you. McCoy: I don't know whether they would be set up to do this. It'll be special type printing because it's got to use serial numbers on it and probably have to be correlated and packaged together. It'd be great for you to get into. Why should you have some outsider do it. And you could market it to other people. McCoy: There's only two Bingo printing companies in the United States. And we've got one hall here. Our paper, I guess, averages $B,000-$12,000 a game cause we bought 60-some thousand for those six games. Right. $10,000 a game and 25 games a year. You're talking about a quarter of a million dollars worth of paper every year for one Bingo. Are you going to have a good fair this year? McCoy: Haven't heard much about it. Haven't kept up with it much. I heard about a week ago they didn't have a carnival. McCoy: They've got a few rides over there or something. They don't ever get the right people to work that thing, you know. I mean, I'm not criticizing. How long does it last? McCoy: A week. It starts next Tuesday and ends Saturday, I believe.
Interview of Molly Blankenship & Ben Bridgers By Warren Moore Cheorkee, N.C. K-461 But anyway those are the things. I'm going to try to to choose. You know, the bingo makes the difference^. Everybody has heard about that. At about 4:00 I'm going to be able to run down Dan. I'm going to introduce her to Dan and let him tell her something and maybe go up to show her what bingo and things are like and I think, I've got to go see Jerome and I thought about running down to the camp ground and running by there..and, everybody else, I had thought about P.K. Ferree. Now, I haven't called P.K. I don't know, you know I don't personally know P.K. that well but that company Well, now see he came here in either 45 or 46 and he Okay. and he could tell you, you know about the beginnings of his business. Business development and stuff. Um-huh. And that was really the first The business at that time wasn't it? Yeah. The production operation Can you think of any What about somebody Have you talked to anybody about the drama affiliated with the historical association? Now that would be a good topic. Molly's affiliated with that herself and so she might know who would be somebody good. She might be able to tell you some stuff herself. Well, it's been in production since the late 40' O's you kn ow,
(2) I can remember once when they were building that they had two boxes Indian men and the workers couldn't see eye to eye and one of them would get up to the top with their wheel barrows and say we should get here and they would start working and the other one would come along and say, now, now you need to start at the bottom and they would take all these wheel barrows down. I think they spent three or four days pushing those wheel barrrows from the top of that hill to the bottom before they finally rebelled and then they finally got things together. Now let's see, Warren you I have talked to G.B. Chilbasque and Marion. I've talked to Rebecca Grant, and photographed her making some baskets, weaving some baskets and I met some people at the Elder Sally Manor. Sally Manor at lunch one day, but really G.B. and Marion, and Rebecca are the only people I have really interviewed. One of the things that would be interesting, I don't even know if there would be anybody left and I know it is difficult to get folks to talk sometimes about it, is there anybody left like the Suqua Brothers that would accessible that would talk about anything of a more traditional nature cultural and religeous practices that still exist that most people aren't really aware of. Because I know when we got involved in that Suit I did not know most of those things but I talked with Emily and Lloyd through interpreters and also, now who was their sister. Who am I thinking, Emaline, who is the
(3) Emaline and Amanda. Emaline is the one I talked to too. She was interviewed there and I remember talking with here. They are all descendants of the Well her family would be, for instance Emaline and Amanda. Yeah. Would they be willing to talk to me, do you think? I don't know, but maybe. I think you could contact them. Because I just know what I know about that family that they are right interesting folks and that they are much more traditional Indians than some of these other people you might talk to. And, you might get a different prospective. And, I would like to include a whole chapter on the Indians and it can't be as comprehensive as a book or what should be done anyway. But, if I could get a few representative people that would help a lot and if I could get different prospectives too. The modern, bingo game and what's going on now, but if I could get some people talking about People who wouldn't like bingo. Who are traditional Traditional Who wouldn't want the change. That way you can present more of a representative picture too. Well Would you mind asking. I was trying to think who, Ben could get some of Craft's people to talk. You know, for instance years ago we didn't
(4) have any good roads in here. We just had wagon roads and basket makers used to walk over the mountain to Waynesville, and walk to Sylva and sell their baskets on the street and to this day we have people come in here who want to get them compared and they compare their prices with what they pay with what we pay. They just cannot believe it. Let's see, you know, most of us old people have just gone on. I know there's been a lot of people that have passed away. I'm trying to think, I think somebody in Big Cove But I thought maybe you our Betty might know somebody, you know like them that Yeah, well what we could do, I could get with Betty in the morning and make out a tentative list and contact people and see if they're If they are willing. Let, me ask you Now, I'll tell you, Johnson Bradley in the village, you know, and Hayes Lawson. I don't know how much Do you think we will have any problem with that resolution that Phil Smith helped us with Sylva about people coming in doing research. Do you know what I'm talking about? Well, I think that he was talking more about unorganized You know, from an academic stand point where they would run into the schools uninvited. Okay. I never understood what the back ground of that particular resolution Now, that's what precipitated that, was that groups were
(5) just walking into the school and they I just didn't want him to complain to me in counsel because I bring this lady into And, I don't want anybody to get upset with me either. Well, you're not doing the, I mean this is just a small part of what you are doing and this is not going to be, it's not an academic project I take it, not by a school or university. And, I'm not going to bring people in and movie cameras and horns, or things like that. And you are not going to apply for any grants to study the Indians. How do you spell your name? It's W-a-r-r-e-n M-o-o-r-e. I thought I heard that correct. But that Warren is is man's name. It is most places except for me. I think I'm the only one. There's some men's names that we consider lady's names. Sue. Right. And, I live in Greensboro. Do you know anybody at Guilford? Urn-huh. Dan and John Beasley? I've met them. They used to come down in the summer and play. And Harry, I believe is still in Greensboro. She's an anthropologist, or doctor.
(6) Yeah, I've read some things she's wrote. I wouldn't think we would have any problem with going in. Okay. You know just, older kinda people that can compare, you know, life here the way it is now as apposed to the way it used to be? Um-huh, I think that would be good. If you can think of a good young person who would be a good person to talk to The whole idea is to present things as they are, but how people recall the history in the past. Because lots of this is going to be lost if And stories, and good stories and good descriptions are invaluable. I'll tell you, life's changed one way because when I first came to work here it was during World War II and I had been over in the other side of the building and somebody came running and said, Molly your cows are out, your mother's cows are out and down here where the school is now they had clover and those cows extremely liked picking up clover so I had to an hour annual leave and go out and save my mother's cows. And you were able to do that too, yeah. Now, they don't have any cows or clover. No. About how many people would you want to talk to? What do you think? I don't know, you would have more idea of the time you have.
(7) Well, I can talk to some this week and come back again, you see. Okay. I tell you what we could do, we could get, I'll get with Betty in the morning and we will get you, you know like crafts people this week and then maybe Emaline Driver. Yeah. That might be And then we can perhaps have a list of people and you can look it over and we could tell you something about them. And you could help guide me. That would be wonderful. Gosh, thank you so much. You can't just sit down It's so hard just off the top of your head, it really is. Oh, yes it is. There's been so many changes and so many disputes over all the years it is hard to think of all the things too. Just a good cross section Like you were trying to think of a full blooded person and this person and that person and you're a good judge. You know I don't know, sometimes Can't see the trees for the forest, but we will Well that would be wonderful. And thoughts just like the one that you had about going in and getting the cows together, are beautiful things. That kind of Seems like everybody good I think of is dead. So many people have died in the last couple of years. So, if you can just think of