JAY SEKULOW LIVE! 12.15.04 This is Jay Sekulow. The ACLU files a lawsuit in Pennsylvania over the issue of evolution. Gene: This is JAY SEKULOW LIVE! From Washington, Chief Counsel of the American Center for Law and Justice (ACLJ), Jay Sekulow. Welcome to the broadcast, everyone. Jay Sekulow here. Gene Kapp in our studio in Virginia. We ve got so much for tolerance. The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) in Harrisburg, PA, filed a federal lawsuit yesterday against a school district that is requiring students to learn about alternative theories to the formation and the origins of mankind. The alternative to evolution that is being taught by the school is intelligent design. Now, school districts throughout the United States have adopted curriculums like this. They are not teaching any particular origin of mankind theory as fact; they re teaching a variety of theories of the origin of mankind, including intelligent design which, of course, hold the view that the universe is so complex especially with DNA evidence and no one can deny that that it has to have been created by an intelligent creator, an intelligent higher power, an intelligent being as they say. These are not particularly religious instructions, but they do talk about a creator being involved in the process. The school board had voted 6-3 to have a variety of theories of the origin of mankind taught in the schools. The ACLU has taken a look at it and they don t believe it is a secular program any longer because it mentions a creator. Therefore, in their view, that violates church-state separation. The ACLU has filed their lawsuit on behalf of 11 parents who perceived that the school district s actions are conveying a governmental message subscribing to a religious view reflected in the arguments for intelligent design. So, in essence, what you have is the ACLU taking the position that if any theory on any topic happens to coincide with a religious view or a Christian worldview, then it should be excluded from the public schools. I think this is a very important case to keep our eyes on, and we certainly will be doing that at the American Center for Law and Justice. The ACLU is not alone in the lawsuit; Americans United For Separation of Church and State have joined them. Gene: No surprise there, of course, Jay; but when you look at this lawsuit, the school district in question is Dover, Pennsylvania the Dover area school district. They voted back in October to include intelligent design in their science curriculum with a vote of 6-3. It created quite a furor in the community. Several of those dissenting board members actually resigned in protest. But, Jay, as you have said many times on this broadcast, there should be alternatives taught to let students take an opportunity to examine all theories with respect to life, correct? Page 1 of 9
If what the Supreme Court has said is accurate, and I believe it is, that the school classroom is uniquely the marketplace of ideas where you re supposed to discuss a variety of theories regarding the origins of mankind, then why would you ignore or remove from that classroom the possibility that it was an intelligent creator who created this complex world we live in, including the human DNA model, which clearly and adequately disputes Darwinian evolution as a contemporary theory any more. So you don t have to teach it as false, you just teach a variety of theories. The ACLU is so narrow-minded in their approach, that they don t want a variety of theories taught. They want this exclusive view. Simply put, that s not what the Constitution of the United States allows for. The Constitution talks about freedom of speech, freedom of association, the idea that we can discuss issues and, as the Supreme Court has said, emanating out of the First Amendment is this idea that the classroom is uniquely the marketplace of ideas where these approaches to life should be discussed. That s where they are supposed to be discussed. The ACLU is taking a very cramped view. Remember, they are the ones arguing for censorship here. Gene: When you look at exactly what s taking place in this school district, the school officials in approving that curriculum and putting intelligent design in place in that school district also said they would monitor the lessons very closely to make sure that no one is promoting religion, but also that no one is inhibiting religion. How does that shape up? I think that s fine. School districts have that authority and the school board has that authority through the curriculum committee. Now there is another case pending in Atlanta, GA, right now where all the school district in Cobb County did was put a sticker on their textbooks that says basically that evolution is not to be taught as fact, and there are other theories regarding the origins of mankind. I don t see anything wrong with that at all! The idea that you would have this kind of censorship talks about the limitation the ACLU is putting on the First Amendment. They are the censors. That s one of the reasons why we are offering this free book, Foundations of Freedom, so that you know what the Constitution says, especially when cases like this come up. Gene: Thousands are requesting their free copy of the Foundations of Freedom. You can too. All you have to do is pick up the phone and call this toll-free number at 1.877.989.2255. Back with more in a moment. [Foundations of Freedom Offer; Merry Christmas from Jay Sekulow] Welcome back to the broadcast everyone. Jay Sekulow here. We have a lot to talk about today in the litigation realm. We ll be taking your phone calls as well. We mentioned earlier that there is a new lawsuit filed by the ACLU and Americans United For Separation of Church and State (Americans United) arguing that there is a violation of the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment because of another theory of the origins of mankind in addition to evolution not removing evolution from being taught, but an additional theory of intelligent design being taught in the Harrisburg, PA, area. That has now resulted in a significant federal lawsuit by the ACLU and Americans United. Page 2 of 9
At the same time, I was on the phone yesterday with our senior research team in Washington, DC. A lawsuit has been filed by an abortion federation organization against the recently passed conscience clause protection so that medical professionals under federal law now are not going to be compelled to participate in abortion procedures, and hospitals will not be compelled to give abortions or abortion procedures. That has been challenged in federal court. We put together a senior team at the ACLJ to combat this, and let me tell you exactly what we have done. Our Legislative Affairs Team yesterday met with members of Capitol Hill, the staff in the House and in the Senate, to discuss this case. We are going to be representing the sponsors of this legislation from both the House and Senate. Dave Weldon, a Congressman from Florida and a good friend of ours who has been on this broadcast many times we ll be representing him before the district court. He wrote this legislation. He is a Congressman who is also a doctor. We will be talking with other members of the Senate about the issue. We think it is that important to move forward on this. When you look at the issue overall and how that one is going to play out, it is going to be in federal court right there in Washington, DC, so our Legislative Affairs Team is working with the Senate and House staff; while our senior research team in Washington, DC, is putting together the legal briefs to be filed at the district court. We will probably be representing some medical professionals as well, so that case is shaping up. The argument there is violations of the Constitution as well as that the statute is too broad in its perspective. So many of these cases we are involved in deal with the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. We thought it was important to get into our listening audience s hands and to our friends around the country who listen to this broadcast on a regular basis or even new listeners, a book called Foundations of Freedom. We put this together because we are going to refer to specific page numbers in this book during the year when we re talking about what the Constitution actually says, what the Declaration of Independence says about being endowed by our Creator with inalienable rights. What does that mean? You are going to have a resource available to you right there when you are listening to this broadcast on radio. We have had a great response, and I think 5-10,000 books have already been sent out across the country or are in the process of being mailed out now. We want you to have it too. It s in booklet format. One of the best things about it is the way the presentation is made, it s one of those rare copies of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution where the font is big enough that you can actually read it and enjoy what you are reading because it s easy to get through insofar as seeing and understanding what s going on in these documents. We want you to have it. It s our gift to you, absolutely free. We encourage you to call our toll-free number and order your copy of Foundations of Freedom today. Gene: Jay, it s also done in a specially sized format that s easy to include in your purse, your car, your briefcase it doesn t take up a lot of room. Foundations of Freedom, free of charge. Just call this toll-free number at 1.877.989.2255. The U.S. Constitution, the Bill of Rights, the Gettysburg Address and the Declaration of Independence all put together Page 3 of 9
especially for you free of charge. Foundations of Freedom. Call right now. 1.877.989.2255. Let s go to the phones. We start today in Virginia where Ralph is joining us. Go ahead, Ralph. Ralph: I am an ordained Baptist minister, born again believer volunteering to become a volunteer chaplain in a local Coast Guard Auxiliary organization. I attended the meeting, and the lay person filling in for a chaplain in prayer informed me that they were not allowed to pray in the name of Jesus, and I was just wondering if we have anything officially in print legally on that, because I don t see how that could be practiced without violation of our constitutional rights. Well, you are absolutely correct. First of all, thank you for your volunteer service. Living in a coastal town like Virginia Beach, VA, we know how important the Coast Guard Auxiliary is to assisting the Coast Guard and vessels in distress, especially at this particular time in our country s history where the ports are a concern with terrorism and everything else, so we thank you for your service. Look, the military has chaplains, and they don t tell the chaplains you can t pray in Jesus name. They don t tell a Jewish rabbi who is a chaplain or part of the chaplaincy corps of the military you can t say the prayers in Hebrew, and they wouldn t tell an Imam in the Muslim faith you can t say the word in Arabic or say the word Allah. That would certainly be a violation of their constitutional rights if the government starts censoring out messages when it comes to what a chaplain says or a chaplain does. So, there is an overreaction by somebody within the Coast Guard Auxiliary. Now we have a special group within our Washington, DC, office that handles military-related cases and military-related issues; so I m going to get you in touch with our lawyers at the American Center for Law and Justice. Our Washington, DC, office works on a regular basis with not only the Chaplaincy Corp but the military generally on issues with religious freedom. We have a good relationship with them, and I m sure we can get this worked out very quickly for you. Gene: Let s go to New Jersey where we have Pasquale on the line. Go ahead, please, with your question for Jay. Pasquale: We are starting a Christian academy in our church, and we advertised for Christian teachers we wanted to, and the local paper said we could not use the word Christian. Consequently, we ran the ad without that, and we don t know who we have there. We re going to have to screen a whole bunch of people. I just wonder why I couldn t use the word Christian. Well, actually, the newspaper got it wrong. There are some regulations where they don t let you use religious references, but there is not a prohibition when it is a churchaffiliated position or what s called a BFOQ; the legal term is Bona Fide Occupational Qualification, and that means that part of the job has to be consistency within the Christian teachings of a church. If it s a pastoral position or a teaching position, of Page 4 of 9
course, you can find out if the individuals believe and subscribe to the tenets of the particular church or denomination. So, what happened with the newspaper there is they simply got it incorrect; they got it wrong; and that is truly unfortunate that they did, but they have overreacted. We ll get in touch on your behalf and on the church s behalf with the newspaper s editorial group or their classified ad section and explain to them how the law works and how it s set up, and that should resolve the situation. When it is a bona fide occupational qualification especially a church, synagogue or a religious institution doing hiring--they can talk about the requirements the individuals must have for positions especially positions like this subscribe to the faith of the particular denomination. That s certainly allowed without any problems. Let us get in touch with the newspaper officials on your behalf and see if we can work this out. Gene, before the next caller (I know we have a lot of calls coming in), there was a story that ran all over the country last week from Washington State about a censorship of Charles Dickens play A Christmas Carol. Let me tell you what happened. I got a letter from a pastor in the area who said that the school principal there is not getting fair treatment because he did not cancel the play because it was religious in nature, but it was canceled because the organization involved was actually charging a fee to the students to attend, which you had to go through protocol in order to do that in order to have an event sponsored on the school campus where the students were charged a fee. The principal is actually a member of this particular church and is a Christian and said he would never censor anything out because it had a religious message. So he asked for those who reported the story to clarify it. We certainly want to do that. I don t know if others are going to clarify it, but apparently, the Charles Dickens situation with the Christmas Carol in Kirkland, WA, was not censored because of the religious message, but rather the group involved in performing it did not go through the proper protocol. I just wanted to make sure that we cleared that up on our end. Gene: Yes, it s good we got that clarification out there. A reminder too, if you do have questions about the Christmas season, the do s and don ts with respect to your constitutional rights, we have great resource material posted online on the front page of our website at www.aclj.org. What s nice about it, Jay, there are two documents posted there. One deals specifically with the schools, but the other deals with nativity scenes, the public arena, and the law is very clear now, Jay. Absolutely, very clear and very specific. It has developed very well, and we are getting really quick results on most of the cases. There are only a few where we ve had to carry the load a little bit further. Most are getting resolved and resolved successfully. Gene: Check it out online at www.aclj.org. While you are there, why not take part in our user poll. We want to know if in your community, you feel that school districts, communities are able to celebrate Christmas without any hindrance. It s a yes or no question. Many people are responding to that poll as well, Jay. Page 5 of 9
It s great to know what people are thinking around the country on this. So if your community is allowing Christmas celebrations or there has not been censorship, let us know that. If there has been, let us know that as well. It s very simple to operate. Just go to the user poll at www.aclj.org. As we go into the break, let me also encourage you to get the book Foundations of Freedom. We put this together because we are going to refer to specific page numbers in this book during the year when we re talking about what the Constitution actually says; it s the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, the Gettysburg Address by President Lincoln, the documents we refer to often on this program. It s our gift to you, absolutely free. We encourage you to call our toll-free number and order your copy of Foundations of Freedom today. Gene: Jay, it s also done in a specially sized format that s easy to include in your purse, your car, your briefcase it doesn t take up a lot of room. Foundations of Freedom, free of charge. Just call this toll-free number at 1.877.989.2255. The U.S. Constitution, the Bill of Rights, the Gettysburg Address and the Declaration of Independence all put together especially for you, free of charge. Foundations of Freedom. Call right now. 1.877.989.2255. [ Foundations of Freedom Spot] Welcome back, everybody. By the way, if you didn t catch the beginning of the program, there s a new lawsuit filed by the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), this time challenging a school district in Pennsylvania s decision to include among the theories of the origin of mankind being discussed in the school, intelligent design. They are not excluding evolution; they are just adding additional theories. The ACLU filing a lawsuit, in essence, requiring censorship. They don t want that being taught. It s a case we re watching very carefully. There s a similar case that s developing in Georgia as well, and we re keeping our eye on that one also. Gene: Let s go to Alabama where Terry is joining us on Line 3. Terry, go ahead, please. Terry: Jay, a group of us here have been protesting a recent sales tax increase, and we went down and got a permit to assemble at City Hall and to pray before the council meeting. When we were gathering there, a police captain came and told the leader of the group that if we assembled in the chambers and prayed, we would be arrested. Well, first of all, prayer is not a prohibited activity inside a chamber. Now, you can t be disruptive to the meeting, but if it s before the meeting starts or before it s called to order and group would want to pray, you certainly have the right to do that. So telling you that you can t pray inside the facilities there or inside the meeting room of the city council meeting is absolutely incorrect. After all, Congress starts their morning off each day with prayers rendered by paid chaplains, paid for by tax dollars, and that s certainly constitutional. The Supreme Court has said that. Legislative prayers are constitutional, Page 6 of 9
but it s even an easier case when it is private citizens just meeting together before a meeting to ask for God s guidance and wisdom on a particular issue or particular decision that s being made by the governing council or the city council. We ve had a series of cases over the years where the issue of prayer was challenged. It was challenged in the United States capital where an actual tour took place of the major sites within the capital and it included prayer stops where the people quietly, nondisruptively, prayed in barely a whisper; and they said it was an illegal form of protest and demonstration. We went to federal court on that and were successful. We argued under the First Amendment to the United States Constitution under the Freedom of Speech Clause, not even the Free Exercise of Religion which would have protected it as well, but under just plain free speech and freedom of association, which is also spelled out in the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. Individuals have the right to gather together in meetings, in groups to pray as long as it is in a nondisruptive way and not causing a problem for the meeting. We were successful on that. We ll be successful in your situation, too. Hang on the line and we will get some help for you and get you in touch with our legal staff. Gene, this is a perfect example. The book we are sending out to our members and friends around the country, Foundations of Freedom, we will be referring to off and on the broadcast in the coming year. I really want this to be an opportunity for all of us to get to understand the Constitution, because there are going to be a lot of these constitutional issues coming up this year between the Justices possible retirements at the Supreme Court and a number of these cases, we need to know what the Constitution says. If you go to the First Amendment of the United States Constitution and Gene has the book right there and will give you the page number in a minute for those of you who have already gotten it it s very clear what the First Amendment to the Constitution says as part of the Bill of Rights. It talks about that Congress shall pass no law prohibiting the freedom of speech; it protects affirmatively the free exercise of religion and, specifically, the freedom of association has come out of that as well. And petitioning the government for redress of grievance is spelled out specifically in the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. Gene: It s listed in our Foundations of Freedom book beginning on Page 35 under the Bill of Rights. The other thing when you look at the Constitution, too, in the various clauses that are a part of this, Jay, this really is a roadmap for our country. It sure has been. Gene: We talk about it so much on this broadcast, but when you start reading through the various articles here that entail the powers that not only are delegated to the President but to Congress, to the federal judiciary, this really is a roadmap of our country and a roadmap to our future, too. Page 7 of 9
What s fascinating about it is when you read it, you realize the foresight that the founding generation had in drafting these documents because they anticipated so many realities that have now developed. The First Amendment is such a perfect example because people don t understand what it says. Gene, you have it right there. Gene s going to read the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. It s very, very clear. Just listen to what it says, and that kind of sets out the tone of the rights. Gene: It s on Page 35 of our book. The First Amendment states very specifically, Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. That First Amendment statement that you see laid out there includes the right to pray, the right to pray collectively as a group, the right to approach government and say you disagree with a position or you want change in an area. A lot of the things we talk about are contained in that First Amendment. Again, we want you to really get to know the Constitution over the next year, and that s why we are making available absolutely free the copy of our book Foundations of Freedom. We re going to use it just like we did today. Gene: It has the U.S. Constitution, the Bill of Rights, the Gettysburg Address and the Declaration of Independence all bound together in an easy-to-carry booklet. Foundations of Freedom. Call right now to get your free copy. 1.877.989.2255. Let s go to Line 8 to Steve in California. Go ahead, Steve, with your question for Jay. Steve: I need some clarity on separation of church and state. The law doesn t say that you can t pray in a government setting, correct? It just means you can t force anybody who isn t willing to. That s exactly correct. Again, it s the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. We don t want an established religion. We don t want the government mandating that citizens must pray, but it protects specifically the free exercise of religion, which prayer is a part of; and freedom of speech includes the right to pray. And as Gene read just a moment ago in the First Amendment, it also includes the freedom of association that is, the right to meet together and prayer. So that is constitutionally protected. Gene: Jay, when you look at the language of the First Amendment, I want to read this one phrase again because this is really the crux of the separationist, whether it s Americans United or other groups who often want to talk about the separation of church and state. They have somehow twisted this. But this is what the First Amendment really says: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;... Page 8 of 9
What that means is we re not going to have a Church of England or a Church of the United States where the government establishes a religion for its people. But the next provision says,... or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; giving the individual citizens the right to engage fully in religious exercise without violating the Constitution. So, that s why it is so important to understand what the Constitution says. But here s a constitutional absurdity: In Jacksonville, FL, a Christmas tree that is decorated in the lobby of the new federal courthouse in the downtown area has been removed. Was there any religious symbolism on the Christmas tree itself as far as ornaments? Absolutely not! They were mostly secular depictions the famous Christmas tree colors, the snowmen and reindeer that they have allowed to stay (the reindeer and snowmen), but the Christmas tree goes because someone might be offended by a Christmas tree. This is political correctness run amuck. This is ridiculous, and the chief judge in Jacksonville decided to do this. We re going to get in touch with the Government Services Administration and let them know that, in our view, they are violating other people s rights and taking an overly restrictive approach to the First Amendment s Establishment Clause that Gene just read, and that needs to be changed. We re going to get lawyers taking a look at that situation in Jacksonville, FL, right away to get that resolved quickly. Again, part of the idea here is to educate not only our members around the country, but sometimes we have to educate federal officials. Again, I want to encourage you if you have not yet done so, call our toll-free number. We have a great book called Foundations of Freedom that s available to you absolutely free. We re going to be using it regularly. It includes the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, the Bill of Rights, and the Gettysburg Address, which is another foundational document for the country that certainly has impacted the United States since it was delivered in the 1860 s. We want you to have all of this information. Gene: Get your free copy of Foundations of Freedom by calling this toll-free number at 1.877.989.2255. The U.S. Constitution, the Bill of Rights, the Gettysburg Address and the Declaration of Independence all put together especially for you, free of charge. Foundations of Freedom. 1.877.989.2255. That will do it for our broadcast today. Thank you so much for being with us. We will talk to you next time on JAY SEKULOW LIVE! Page 9 of 9