1 8 9 10 11 1 1 1 1 1 1 18 19 0 1 8 9 0 1 8 9 0 1 Charter Review Committee City Council Ethics Subcommittee April 1, 01 After determining that a quorum was present, a subcommittee of the City of Denton Charter Review Committee of the City of Denton, Texas convened in a meeting on Wednesday, April 1, 01 at :00 p.m. in the City of Denton, City Hall Conference Room, 1 East McKinney Street, Denton, Texas at which time the following items were considered: Present: Co-chair, Dr. Jim Alexander; Co-chair, Dr. Patrice Lyke; Phil Gallivan, Herbert Holl, Joe Mulroy, Prudence Sanchez Absent: Marty Rivers Staff: John Knight, Bryan Langley, Aaron Leal, Sarah Lollar REGULAR MEETING Co-chair, Dr. Patrice Lyke, called the meeting to order at :0 p.m. 1. Public Comment David Zoltner, 01 Timber Trail, I would like to say a few things about our visit from Alan Bojorquez on March 1 st, the brainstorming ideas from the March 1 th meeting, and reading the minutes from the April th ethics subcommittee meeting. I would like to seek clarity about where we are at with this whole process. Alan was correct, Cities that have gone after Ethics reform have different reason for doing so. During his visit, he didn t do one thing I think we needed and that was to point us in the right direction of how the other Cities accomplished their tasks. The reason San Antonio s ordinance reads very similar to Austin s, San Marcos s, Fort Worth s, is because most of these Cities have adopted their ordinance from a resourced model that is available as a resource everywhere. I have made 8 copies of an example from www.cityethics.org that is a national nonprofit organization. This is where most of these Cities have procured material for their ethics. All the issues are addressed in these materials so we don t have to build these ordinances from the ground up. Denton is not that unique that we need to start over. A lot of issues we have identified are the same issues other Cities have addressed before. When Kathleen Wazny campaigned years ago, ethics was one of the cornerstones for her campaign. But after she was elected she had a lot of trouble working on ethics and the issue became stagnant. The Council majority at the time, told Council member Wazny as well as instructed the City s Legal department that we do not want you wasting time with Ethics. This information is in the minutes. So myself, Kathleen Wazny, and half a dozen others met bi-weekly for months using this model ordinance from www.cityethics.org. This ordinance is ready to go, I recommend reading the material I brought to see if this is close to what you are looking for. The job of this committee is not to decide what elements do or don t go into an ethics ordinance. That is the job for the City Council. Read the charge to this committee, it is to decide what to do with 1.0 and 1.0 and set the stage for the City Council to move forward. It would be helpful 1
1 8 9 10 11 1 1 1 1 1 1 18 19 0 1 8 9 0 1 8 9 0 1 if this subcommittee or the main committee would recommend to get to work. There is nothing currently in the charter that prevents our City Council from going to work and decide what they want. Thank you.. Consider approval of the April, 01 Minutes. Joe Mulroy motioned to approve April minutes, Phil Gallivan seconded. Motion passed.. Receive a report, hold a discussion, and give direction regarding the Denton City Charter related to: a. Ethics provisions in the Charter; and b. Recommendation of elements that should be included in an Ethics Ordinance. Bryan Langley- Following our last meeting I sent the notes on the various elements that you wanted to have in the charter and ordinance to Aaron. Aaron and I have had a discussion and he has drafted something that hopefully captures a lot of what you are looking for. At your discretion, allow Aaron to walk us through what he has put together. I know Joe also passed out a document for discussion. Mulroy I did some homework but first I want to clarify that what David said is not exactly on the mark. If you go to the minutes read Alan s recommendations, he did say there is no barrier for Council to write an ordinance. But, he did not recommend that we do that. He recommended a different approach. We had a full committee meeting where Aaron talked us through the different approaches and that is why we are here today. If Council thought they had enough to do something meaningful, they would have done that rather than create a committee. We will honor the public input, I just don t want us to become derailed. Aaron Leal I received an email from Bryan Langley last Thursday with a summary of what he believed to be the major points or areas you wanted to focus on in the draft charter provision. I hope he was able to fully capture that. I passed out a 1 page document and what I did was title it Current Charter Provisions so that you can see the difference between the before and after for sections 1.0 and 1.0. Around the middle of the page is where I took a stab at drafting a new Conflict of Interest Charter Provision that reflects what Bryan and my understanding of what you wanted to include. This is a draft and is meant to be edited and revised as you see fit. Langley To clarify Aaron, 1.0 and 1.0 would be struck and this draft would replace those? Leal You are correct, the charter ballot proposition would ask voters to repeal these provisions, yes or no. And replace with this new charter provisions. Alexander Would the items 1- actually appear in the language of the charter?
1 8 9 10 11 1 1 1 1 1 1 18 19 0 1 8 9 0 1 8 9 0 1 Leal Yes, if that is what you recommend to the full committee. These are subject areas I think you would want to see in a future ordinance. Langley My understanding from our discussion is that you would have 11 as a floor that the Council will have in an ethics ordinance. But it clearly says you can go above that if you want to have more stringent requirements. With 11 being in the charter, can you actually do something contrary or more stringent is the legal question. Mulroy We tried to reduce it to the major bullets and these listed in your document are the ones we identified. Alexander The concern I have is, that there are other provisions in State Law that may also restrict ethical behavior by Council members and department heads, etc. I came across a provision dealing with ethical requirements for Council members and department heads in Cities with population above 100,000. They are a little more restrictive than some of the things I understood in 11. Leal- I m not familiar with that specific provision about requirements of Cities with a population over 100,000. Alexander I made a copy of the elements on that page from the Texas Municipal League website. There appears to be a recent change in the Texas law specifically applying to Cities above 100,000. It covers some of the things we are most concerned about. I d like for you guys to spend some time looking at this before we finalize our language. I want to make sure we reference all State law that may be applicable in Denton, not just 11. Leal I think I found the provision you are citing. It is the provision on financial disclosure. When Cities reach a certain threshold we have to do a financial disclosure provision. You may have seen it in the newspaper. Alexander Yes, that s what brought it to my attention, so I started to research why the City candidates were having to file these rather detailed disclosure statements. Mulroy I m ok with adding information that will put an umbrella over State Law changes and future changes. Alexander I saw some other State law provisions relating to gifts that have been incorporated that is very close to where we want to be. Holl I can t control what others perceive but I can control the appearance, I like using the word appearance. Langley To make sure I understand, bullet point #1 remove perception, only using the word appearance? Holl On #, I recommend define recusal instead of define and prohibit recusal.
1 8 9 10 11 1 1 1 1 1 1 18 19 0 1 8 9 0 1 8 9 0 1 Sanchez - What are the applicable State Laws? Should we know what those are before we put those in there? Leal That is discussion for the Council, in the past, we have provided in a Work Session information where we defined all the State Laws above penal code and non-penal code that have some element of ethics. And that is what we would provide to the Council. Mulroy If a specific issue comes up in to years where the Council says that s not stringent enough, than they can tweak the ethics ordinance. Leal I noticed there was one conflict in the wording and what you are attempting to do that is inconsistent that I wanted to point out. In the opening paragraph, second sentence, At a minimum, such ethics ordinance shall incorporate the conflict of interest standards that appear in chapter 11, however, Council has the discretion to adopt more stringent standards than those that appear in chapter 11. Chapter 11 has that 10% limitation. When you compare this sub-paragraph 1, no appearance of conflict, you have different competing thoughts. I wanted to point that out because it needs to be addressed. Leal I do not have a suggestion on how to write it right now, I will need to think about it before I could give you that suggestion. Alexander To take this logically forward, instead of a 10% substantive Interest, limit it to no more than %. But the % is still perhaps an appearance of conflict of interest. Gallivan I like to use dollar amounts instead of a percentage. I put $100 in my homework. Lyke I agree with Phil on a dollar value. Percentages lead to proportionality problems. Mulroy Ownership shall not be greater than % or $00 whichever less is. Sanchez What is the difference between appearance of conflict of interest and improper economic interest and personal gain? Mulroy The charter is a reflection of what the communities ask for. Holl I think #1 and # overlap but together they mean more. Alexander We are not working with criminal law, we are working with ethical guidelines. We need to make that distinction. Our expectations of our leadership in the community exceed the minimum State legal requirements. Sanchez Should we say require or avoid the appearance of a conflict of interest? Holl In #, it says define and prohibit and I think those words are very clear.
1 8 9 10 11 1 1 1 1 1 1 18 19 0 1 8 9 0 1 8 9 0 1 Alexander State law defines conflict of interest as 10% of income. Mulroy I agree with Phil, put a dollar value on it instead of a percentage. Holl Would it be simple enough to say Conflict of interest as defined by State law and local ordinance? That way it makes reference to the fact that there is also local law. Sanchez In addition to what Herb said, I d like to add avoid a conflict or the appearance of a conflict of interest as defined by State law and local ordinance. In #, define and prohibit improper participation and define recusal when there is a conflict or an appearance of a conflict of interest is present. Gallivan This is a dynamite list, I think we need to be mindful of the things that need to be included in the conflict of interest. Holl On # instead of using identify, I think establish is a stronger word. Leal I ve identified most of what you have. I m still hung up on sub-paragraph #1. Am I interpreting correctly that the standard for any conflict of interest that you are proposing for the ethics ordinance is that the appearance of a conflict of interest? If so, that means that there is no monetary interest, only the appearance of a transaction. I m still struggling with that. Mulroy We are saying we have the right in our charter language to make it more stringent than the State requirements. Conflict is defined if there is an interest greater than $00. Leal This subcommittee is contemplating that different types of transactions will have one of two standards. A monetary transaction under $00, would not constitute a conflict. But let s say that using information for personal gain, which is a penal code violation, you have an appearance of a conflict standard for a governing body member. I m trying to make sure that what you are doing will accomplish what I m thinking how a future ethics ordinance would look like. Leal - #1 can be rewritten to say define the appearance of conflict of interest so what transactions it would apply this to? Holl There is a more broad issue where you are in a decision making capacity that may have financial implications for an organization. Alexander We have to be careful not to make it impossible for good people to serve on Council and make hard decisions within the community. Lyke We discussed in our last meeting whether a City Council member should step down from their boards? It does help rotate people onto that board. After your time is done on City Council you can go back to that board. We have to spread the power out. Mulroy Let s let Aaron work with what we have so far and move on to the ordinance.
1 8 9 10 11 1 1 1 1 1 1 18 19 0 1 8 9 0 1 8 9 0 1 Alexander Now we want to shift our discussion into the elements that we believe are essential in that ordinance. We have a few documents to work with. Alexander What I understood was that the State Law requires you to recuse yourself from voting if you have a conflict of interest greater than 10%. It doesn t state that you can t sit in on the executive session but it does say that you can t speak during that executive session. Prudence Sanchez left the meeting at :1 pm Mulroy In my hand out on the second paragraph, where it says %, change this percentage to $00 or whichever is less. Holl This is an excellent document that is really concise. Gallivan I would love to come up with something where there should not be outside communication during a Council meeting. Alexander It might be good protocol if the Council members didn t read their phones during Council meetings. Mulroy The ethics complaint should be heard by a panel pool with no less than members. Lyke Are we putting Staff in this? Mulroy How high up in the organization do want to go with this? We might interfere with their HR manuals. Let s put a? for now for all the direct hires. Alexander I like the way that Joe has made short paragraphs focusing on the conflict of interest and the participation issues. Did any others make a list or are your thoughts encompassed in what we ve discussed tonight? I think we should add a paragraph that transparency is paramount to making all of this work. I d also like to focus on community awareness. Alexander I d like to establish an ordinance that would create a committee. This committee is known in some Cities as an Ethics Advisory Board. It doesn t have power to do anything except offer opinions. I think an advisory opinion from an ethics commission would carry great weight for voters in the next election. Lyke Are you suggesting we ultimately create another board? I m not sure I want to see another creation of a Citizens board. Mulroy We need 100% credibility with the whole community. Council will get to that point eventually. Phil Gallivan left the meeting at : pm
1 8 9 10 11 1 1 1 1 1 1 18 Alexander How do we want to present this to the main committee next Wednesday? Mulroy Let s meet on Monday to go over what Aaron has prepared so we can have that extra time to polish everything before the main meeting Wednesday. Alexander Check your calendars for Monday the 1 th at :00 pm Langley We can certainly turn around revisions to these documents and give you something to react to on Monday. I think the other subcommittees are ready to report. But I m not sure they will be completely done by then. Mulroy I suggest we meet and tidy this up because this is the hot subject and we need to avoid rabbit trails. We want to give them something Council can absorb. Adjourn (Subcommittee Co-Chair). Meeting was adjourned at : pm
Attachment 1-Zoltner
Attachment 1-Zoltner
Attachment 1-Zoltner
Attachment - Alexander
Attachment - Mulroy
Attachment - Leal
Attachment - Gallivan