Interview with/ Laura/WaddeH 6 August2002 3y KCeroAVTaylor. The/ Southern/ Orob H C&tory Program/ University of NorthCarolCria/at Chapel HM/

Interview with/ Laura/WaddeH 6 August2002 3y KCeroAVTaylor The/ Southern/ Orob H C&tory Program/ University of NorthCarolCria/at Chapel HM/ Transcript on/ deposit at Loui&1lownd/\0iUon/ Library Citation/of thly interview should/ he/ a* followy. "The/Southern/Oral/History Program/, On/the/ Southern/ H istorical Collection/ M anutcripty Department, Wilson/ Library, The/ U nlversity of North Carolina/ at Chapel HOI' IW 3 CopyrCghm2003 The/Umversity of North Carolina/

Laura WaddeH KIERAN TAYLOR: ( ) here so you'll have to bear with my limited skills and let's see. I want to make sure that's as close to you as possible. I think that should be reading you pretty well. If you could, just to start us off, if you could tell me your name and for the tape recording and then where and when you were born. LAURA WADDELL: Okay. KT: You can go ahead. LW: My name is Laura Sp*0 Washington. That's my maiden name, and I was born right here in Savannah, Georgia. If you knew anything about downtown Savannah, I was born right on Zubela Street behind ( ), and that's at the end of Broughton Street. I was born on February the 18 th, 1928. As a child as far back as I can remember, that was a mighty long time ago, and I stop to think about it, but I lived in Yamacraw as I grew up in Yamacraw. I went to the West Broad Street School, which is now the museum, the Ship of the Sea Museum. KT: Right on Martin Luther King. LW: Right, right on Martin Luther King. My mother had three children besides myself. The oldest of us was my sister Mary Ann. She never lived in Savannah. She lived in South Carolina where my mother came from, Estelle, South Carolina, and when she was about, when my sister was about fifteen years old, she got married and went to Washington with her in-laws, and my mother came home to Savannah with my brother whose name was Willie Washington. There's my younger sister Virgie who was five years younger than I. My brother went in the service, and then when he got out of the service, he went on to Washington where he made his home and got married and lived there for up until now. They still both are living in Washington. My mother's since deceased, but back to my career days. I finish the eleventh grade year in Savannah, but I didn't go to college. I started doing a little sewing in the house for the neighbors, and then I decided that I wanted to go out into the downtown Savannah and perhaps get a job. My mother had a good friend that lived not too far from us who had a tailor shop, and this was right at the end of West Broad on Broughton. Her name was Naomi. I can't remember her last name now, but I think her first name was Miss Naomi. We all called her. There were several men's stores in the block, first block off West Broad on Broughton. There were several men's stores, and none of the stores had in-service seamstress. Miss Naomi had a shop that was inside a shoe

shop. She used part of the back part of it for alteration shop, and she did great business because I think it as I can remember there were three stores in that block that she did alterations for. I was one of the, I would say I was the youngest seamstress in the shop. I think I probably worked for her for maybe about six months before I was the best. I wouldn't say the best, but the fastest, the biggest job was to put cuffs in pants, and we did mostly men's clothes. We didn't do much women clothes. KT: These were all white owned shops. LW: Yes. KT: On Broad. LW: I can remember there was Ben's Men's and Boy's Shop, and there was a shop by the name of Red's Men's Shop. Most all of the stores in that area, I don't remember any other nationality, but the Jewish. It was mostly Jewish guys that had all of the retail stores in that area. At the time Miss Naomi said, "As good as you are, I can't believe that you can work as fast as you work and as good as you are and you have not had any training." She says, "Why don't you think of going and taking some training?" Well, I didn't have the money to go to the sewing class that I had heard about, but down on the corner of Jefferson, I think it was Jefferson and Broughton, there was a Singer Sewing Machine Company. They advertised in the paper that if you bought a machine, you could get free sewing lessons. So as I can remember that's the first sewing lessons I got at Singer Sewing Machine Company. KT: About how old would you have been? LW: I must've been, I was still in school because I was working for Miss Naomi after school, and I must've been in about the eleventh, I'd say about the tenth grade at the time. KT: So still a young teenager. LW: Oh yes. Yes. I wasn't that good a student because I was so interested in sewing, and I don't remember homework and stuff like the kids have to do now. KT: You were working. How did you learn to sew then? LW: I learned by doing. I did it at home. We had a little old pedal, the old time pedal machine at home that my mother had. KT: So your mother sewed. 2

LW: My mother did not sew. She had the machine, but she couldn't sew. She was an LAURA WADDELL embarrassment to me in later years when I saw the kind of work that she would put out. But I learned by making my own clothes for myself and my sister, and then when I started working for Miss Naomi, I picked up some little pointers. KT: You were largely self-taught then. LW: Yes. KT: There was no aunt or~ LW: Not at all, not at that time. After a while I did well with Miss Naomi. I don't remember whether she closed up or I just got a better offer. I went to work for Ben. He decided he wanted some in service, in-house seamstresses, and I went to work with Ben. Now at this time Ben's Men and Boy's Shop was on Broughton Street near Jefferson. He hired me to be one of the seamstresses there. It was always more than one of us, and after I worked with them for a while, I went and worked for Jacob's Men's Store, which was further down Broughton. After working for Jacob's, I was in now doing a little bit of lady's alterations too, and at the time when I was working for Jacob's, I decided that this was just not enough for me. I just wanted to learn as much as I can about sewing. So then I started, I heard about a vocational school that I could go to, which was right here in Savannah at Cuyler Street School, which is on Thirty-no, it was on Anderson where the EOA office is. I went there and took a tailoring course. I took a tailoring course there, and it was a vocational school, and the course was for two years, and after graduation, our tailor, our instructor rather was a man. He taught the class. There was one lady in the class that won, I think, first prize for the year, and I just was so disappointed because I wanted to win first prize. I couldn't repeat that because I had already graduated, but I could go back and get another year training. I wouldn't get any credit for it, but I just figured that it was something else. He knew that I just did not get, and I went back and got another year with him and the year after I finished with him, he passed on. But he was such a dynamic instructor that you had to learn everything that he had because he would insist that if you didn't understand a subject, a part of what he was trying to teach you, he would know it before you would leave his sight. So anyway, that's where I got my tailoring skills from. While I was working, still working downtown when I graduated, this was in 19501 graduated, I went to one of the ladies' stores downtown where a lady, one of the owner's of the-not the owner one of the managers of the stores--. It was a chain 3

of stores, and she offered me an alteration department, and I didn't have to pay any rent. But I had to do the repairs for the store and answer the phone for all incoming calls. It was on the balcony like, and that's the service that I rendered to the store for free rent. That's where I started building up a clientele. KT: Your own clientele. LW: My own clientele. Everybody who came in the shop came to the alteration department whether they were customers of the store or not. They paid me for the work that I was doing, and I started making so much money, much more money than the other sales people in the store, until the manager changed the rules. He asked me to give her a percentage of what I was taking in. I didn't like it at all, but I said to myself how could she tell how much I'm taking in. She can only tell how much I tell her I'm taking in. So well, anyway it worked out fine for me. I had no overhead. I didn't have to pay any taxes. So I stayed there for, I can't remember exactly, I think about seven years I stayed there, and this was just the beginning of the integration. There were demonstrations downtown, and I remember one weekend they were asking a number of the blacks to come downtown and not to shop in any of the stores. I could not make anyone understand that although I was downtown I was not helping nobody else make money but myself, and if I didn't come downtown to do my work, then I wouldn't get any money. They didn't understand, and I couldn't explain it to anyone. But I still maintained my business during the demonstration, which was really hard for me. People in my position had a hard time during the demonstrations downtown. KT: Well, I'm wondering how many-first off, I'm wondering what it was because you obviously worked on Broughton Street when it was segregated. So what was that like? You must've been one of a handful of black workers right, or were there many? LW: No, there were many. KT: There were many. LW: There were many because even the young lady who, I can remember there are so many skilled jobs that blacks had downtown. They didn't get credit for it, but the young lady who was the window trimmer downtown, she was on the books as the maid, but she was trimming the windows. You see. She worked in that store. I was the alterationist. She was the maid and the window trimmer. She even helped the manager do the books. She did not get credit for it, but after she had been there for about 4

seven or eight years, then she became assistant manager before she left. But there were several people that I remember, there was a young lady who was helping the owner of her shop make hats. She was also the maid. tradesperson. KT: Considered a maid. LW: Yeah, that's what she got paid for. KT: Someone who might have been called the janitor, but he was actually a carpenter or a skilled LW: Right. Right. I remember I was just teasing with someone this past week, on the weekend years ago downtown, that was the time when people from the rural areas came to town to shop. My alteration department was on the balcony like, and you had to go through the back to go to the balcony, and the bathroom was also in the back. So I came down the step one day, and these three little white kids were down there playing, and when I came down the step, he said, "Hi." I said, "Hi." He said, "Are you the cook?" This poor little kid didn't know any better, but although I was furious. Don't ask me if I'm a cook just because I'm black. This was just the attitude that people had, and you learned to accept it because this was the way everything was. Who knew that it was going to be any different? At that time I didn't know. KT: Did you have an exclusively white clientele at that point? LW: I would say seventy-five percent of my customers were white because everyone who came in the shop that needed alterations well, naturally I did that. But because there were no alteration shops downtown that I can remember where you can go into a store with something you bought somewhere else and bring it to this store to be altered. I was right on the same block with the bank, and there were a lot of white tellers in the bank, and well, I had a reputation of doing very good work. Thank God I had that practically all my life. I've never remember having any complaints. Then this store, which was called Lord's at the time, they sold moderate and inexpensive clothes. But because they were a chain like most stores, there are always going to be some real nice things coming in the shop that you would not expect to be in a store like this. Now Fine's was next door, which sold the very best of ladies' clothes. But because I had these young ladies from the banks, the tellers and the cashiers that came in the shop, alterations, any time Lord's had something special that I thought they would like that would go with a blouse or a something that I'd already altered for them, I'd always hold things aside. I ended up selling sometimes 5

things out of the store more than the sales girls did. But I could not get any percentage credit for it, so I would give it to some of the other girls. But there were always people coming in going to the alteration department because they knew that I either had something that I wanted to show them or had something for them to pick up. So I did a very good business there. KT: How about for your own shopping? Would you shop on Broughton, or would you come down to West Broad? LW: Well, frankly at that time I had no reason to come on West Broad, but what happened, my clientele got a little big, and I think the manager of the store was a little jealous of my business because really I had a good business. She said that the store manager was needing the spot that I was using for the alteration department, which I found out years later it was not so. So I moved from there to another location off Broughton Street until I could make up my mind what I was going to do. Then it was in 1962, my husband at the time and I decided that it would be best to try to find a place of my own. I had no idea that I could afford a place of my own because I've never paid overhead before, and it was going to be hard for me. The temporary place that I went to off Broughton was in a shop that sold fabric, and this was, I think, Gardner's Fabric Shop. He was in a big building, but he was just waiting for his lease to be up so he could move out on the rent. So he gave me a spot, real reasonable for a short period of time. But after that period was over, I started looking for a place. I found a young lady who was also downtown, the girl that worked in the hat shop. She said she wanted to go into business for herself too. It was a verbal conversation between she and I that we would share the expense. I found the place and started getting it together, my husband and some of his friends who knew a little bit about carpentry. They worked in the shop to get it together for me. We got the utilities all turned on, but she never showed up. I haven't seen her since, and I was about to go out of my mind for the first month or so because I said, now how am I going to pay my expenses? But it worked out. I knew a lady that was working on Broughton Street at one of the better men's stores, and I think I don't know whether her alteration department closed down or what, but she needed a job, and I needed a seamstress. So she came to work for me. I've never had a partner in my business since I went in business. She came to work for me and she worked for me for seven years. The business just grew. KT: Now were you able to carry your old clientele? 6

LW: Yes, my clientele followed me. KT: They did. LW: I was afraid of that because leaving downtown, Broughton Street, coming into almost to a residential area and predominantly black area, I was afraid that my customers would not come. Some of them were reluctant to come for a while, but they finally, followed me and knowing the kind of business that I was familiar with, how my first employer got jobs. I tried to follow some of that pattern, and that means that I went to some of the stores and asked them did they need alteration, the ones that did not have in-house seamstresses. I started doing alterations for some of the stores, and they would bring the stuff to me. I didn't even have to go get it. They would bring it to me, and sometimes I would see that they got it back, but we did what was necessary to get the job done. If it was convenient for me to pick it up, I would pick it up. If it was convenient for them to bring it to me or come get it, if they needed it in a hurry, they came and got it. I ended up doing work for at least two stores, and when business kind of got slow with the stores, I went to the Savannah State College where I did alterations for the NROTC. I also did alterations for the Army, put, sewing on patches, whatever was to make money we had the alteration department. KT: Did you ever have any kind of business training or running a small business? LW: Never had business training. KT: It's just kind of- LW: Never, never. KT: Common sense or where did you pick up? LW: I have been fortunate enough to know some real good people, and one of my, I would say one of my favorite clients was Mr. Goldberg, Leon Goldberg. How could I forget that name? He owned two shops. He owned Lad and Lassie Children's Store. If you were in Savannah, you've got to remember that. KT: Ah, Iwent- LW: Oh Durant Avenue. Lad and Lassie Children's Store, and he owned the VIP Shop on Habersham. KT: I think I remember Lad and Lassie. 7

LW: The Habersham Shopping Center. If you were a Jewish person in this city or anybody that had any money to buy nice things for your kids, those are the two stores you went to. What helped me quite a bit in the middle part of my business was that Lad and Lassie had a contract with the Catholic schools where they sold all of the sweaters and the pants for the kids because they were in uniform. The only school in the city that was in uniform and we did the monogramming. I did the monogramming on all of the sweaters, and the store paid for that. If you bought a sweater from the VIP Shop or the Lad and Lassie Children' Store, the store would give you a monogram. KT: So they did it through the stores, but you were actually contracting to do the work. LW: Right. Right. Mr. Goldberg was such a nice guy. I would always have been one if I didn't understand something, I find somebody who knew something about it to help me. But I did not try to do my own books. I did have sense enough to get me a bookkeeper to keep my records for me. But I've learned a lot from Mr. Goldberg, especially how to handle customers and employees. KT: Because I was just wondering how much, as you get your business going in the mid 1960s, how much time were you spending actually doing sewing and work as opposed to doing business kind of LW: Well, there's not that much business involved in the alteration department like paperwork. I kept a record of my paperwork through my cash register, and then I kept a record of my clients like in a daily log that we have we kept a record of clients, the costs or whatever. We had alteration tickets. I mean, [phone] if you forget to remember when a client's things are due, the alteration ticket would tell you that because we wrote down everything on the alteration ticket, [phone] KT: Do you want me to pause it? LW: [break] Mr. Goldberg- KT: Yeah, and I was just wondering about-i mean, it sounds like you had a good deal of business and all of these relationships with other groups, other businesses in the city, I was just wondering, I would think that would be time consuming. LW: Well, not really. Well, you see I did mention the fact that I was speaking about the one employee that I had. But I had more than one employee. When business got good, we hired more people. Not only did I have two regular seamstresses, but we also had part-time people when we needed them. How we obtained the part-time employees, there was a program through the high school for on the job 8

training people, and the kids would get credit for this training. It was called at that time the DCT program. I can't remember right now what the DCT stood for, but it was on the job training program, and there also were two programs that we were in that I was into with the city. One of them was a program with the state that we taught a couple of deaf and dumb people. What do you call that? taught sewing. KT: Impaired or- LW: Yeah, impaired people. I really enjoyed that because I had such a nice young lady that we KT: Did she work at your office or would you go to LW: No, no. She came to work every morning, but she didn't stay a whole six hours. She stayed four hours a day. At the end of her training she worked to stay with us for six weeks. But she did so well, the state gave her a grant to do another six weeks. When she finished her training, they sent her-they wanted me to teach her enough about alterations that she could work in an alteration room for a store. They would provide her with all of the necessary things at home to pursue the alterations. Like they gave her a sewing machine, and they gave her a monthly stipend, and she did real well. She did better than the other people that we trained. I'm telling you. It was a joy to train her. We also had a program where we trained low income ladies who wanted to learn how to sew. I had that for about maybe two years. I had the training with the state impaired people. KT: From a business angle that was worth your while? LW: Yes, but it was not an interruption for them to be there. They worked along with us, and when they watched the work that we did, and they assisted us in some of the things that we did, and we showed them. We'd lay our thing and we'd show them how the proper way to mark a pair of pants, and commercial alteration, there's not a lot of handwork that needs to be done. But we have special sewing machines that you have to learn how to operate, like putting the hem. The technical stuff like marking and getting the right measurement is almost more important than doing the actual work. Because if you get the measurement right, the machine would do the work. So it was not an interruption to have them there at all. You just have to get their confidence enough to make them pay attention to what you're trying to show them. Everything else will fly real easy. KT: So in '62, tell me exactly where your business was. 9

LW: Well, I moved at 1902 Martin Luther King, West Forest Street at the time. KT: Which is about what- LAURA WADDELL LW: It's right at the corner of Thirty-fifth and West Broad. I was there for about twelve years before the building went up for sale, which I was heartbroken because at that time I was thinking about buying a house, and I couldn't buy a business and a house too. KT: Were you still living down at Yamacraw? LW: No, I had moved out. I had moved on Forty-second Street. I was renting an apartment on Forty-second Street. KT: But you had been there for twelve years in this building as a renter then. Who were, I'm trying to-at the time that you moved to West Broad from Broughton or from just off of Broughton, was West Broad still a thriving business district or did you feel it was on the decline at that point? LW: I didn't think so too much at that time because most of the black major businesses were further near to Broughton Street, and me, I was more into the residential area. After you cross Gwinnett there were very few black businesses in my area. But the upper part of, say upper or lower part of West Broad Street was a bit on the decline at that time. KT: It was. LW: Uh huh. I think when they tore down the railroad station there, it really went down at that time. It seemed like, I can't remember the exact year the railroad station was torn down, but I think it might have been just before I moved on. KT: I'm thinking about '62 is when it was torn down. LW: Yeah. Yeah. KT: Maybe a little bit earlier. That's also when the freeway came in. LW: Right. Right. I think that hurt West Broad Street quite a bit. KT: It sounds like you went to work pretty young. LW: Yes. KT: Did you ever have the chance to enjoy West Broad Street as a it sounds like it was quite an entertainment mecca with the theatres and the jazz clubs and - 10

LW: Well, before I opened my business I remember West Broad Street and I enjoyed the theatres. I remember both theatres. A lot of people don't even remember that there were two theatres on West Broad Street, the Star Theatre and the Dunbar Theatre. We had so many nice restaurants. At least I could remember nice restaurants on West Broad Street. Even when I was down on Broughton Street, I remembered I always treated myself to an evening out once a week, and I would always go to restaurant, and I tried to pick a different one every week. I even went to the movies alone. But I would always go down on West Broad one, I think it was a Friday evening. I would always go treat myself to dinner there. KT: Now it's a handful of these places. LW: I don't even know if there's a nice place on West Broad Street, not a black place to eat. KT: There's a couple of chains. There's Wendy's and fried chicken. LW: No. No. I mean, when I said nice restaurants, you would get dressed and go to a restaurant and have a dinner. I mean a nice dinner. It was almost like the Lady and Son, several nice restaurants on West Broad Street. KT: It's hard to believe, isn't it? LW: It is hard to believe. Shoe shops, there were several nice shoe repair shops. There's nothing like that. There was a shop that I remember real well. It was a record shop and a stocking shop. They sold records and stockings. This is right where the African shop is at, Mr.~ KT: Shinhoster. LW: Shinhoster's shop. It was right there. KT: That was records LW: It was a lot of beauty shops. There was two funeral homes on West Broad, I remember also. I remember two night spots, but I was not able to go in the night spots. I was not allowed. I had a very strict mother. KT: Is that right? LW: When I was old enough to go, I didn't have time to go because I was working too much. I didn't go out much at night. But that was some, you would always hear about people, your family like my sister in Washington or my cousin in New York would say tell us the name of the famous singers, and I said, "My gosh they were in Savannah." But we'd be amazed to hear about all these jazz singers coming to 11

Savannah that we heard someone else talk about. You would think that if you had known that they were going to be here, you would've made an effort to go see them. We had a lot of important, people who were not important at the time that would come to Savannah to perform. They would come to Savannah to work out their act before they go to New York. Now the museum has a lot of history on the jazz singers that came through Savannah. KT: The civil rights museum. LW: Yeah. KT: As you moved into that building at Thirty-fifth who were the, it was mostly residential in the area or do you remember when-who were the tenants that were near there? LW: Well, next door to me was a small gas station, and the gentleman that owned the gas station lived upstairs. This was a white family. Right next across where the, on Thirty-fifth and West Broad what's now open lot, used to be a row of houses. They were, I don't think there was any business on the West Broad Street side of the street, but on the Thirty-fifth Street side was where the houses were. That was all the way almost to Montgomery Street, the whole block was row houses. Across the street from the row houses on West Broad, there's a two story house there now that's still there, but all of the rest of that whole block was mostly residential. moving out. KT: Now there couldn't have been too many white residents. LW: There were not too many when I first got there, but there were some. But they were slowly KT: They would all be on the east side of the street, right. LW: Yes. Yes. KT: Because that was kind of a dividing line? LW: No, I wouldn't say a dividing line, but seemed like more of the blacks were moving into the west side of West Broad Street. There were more businesses on Montgomery, which was on the east side, and there were several houses, especially the houses on Thirty-sixth Street were still being occupied by whites. Like I said my next door neighbor at the shop that had the gas station, he and his wife stayed there. But they were not young people. They were as I can remember, he seemed to me to have been around about fifty years old or older, he and his wife. His business was already on the decline. So he was looking 12

to move out as soon as he could get a sale, I think, for his business. After he left part of that business went in, there were barbershop next door and a fish market next door after the barbershop. The fish market was there first, and it didn't do well because the young man, he opened it, and he just was not a good businessman. He didn't stay there long. But then the barbershop opened. He stayed there a long time until he died. It was closed up for a while, but now it's a barbershop back again. KT: Okay. Beavers would be a block, that would be more like Thirty-sixth and Thirty-seventh- LW: Now Beavers is all the way down at Forty-second Street. KT: Forty-second. LW: Now Mr. Beaver was in that, I can't remember exactly where he was before he moved there. But he was closer to me than he is now. But he has been on West Broad Street a long time. He is like myself. He kept his business, and he even bought his business, bought his building, his property. Now where he is now used to be grocery store. KT: That strip there. LW: Forty-second and West Broad, which is Martin Luther King, used to be a grocery store, and next door before you got to the grocery store on West Broad used to be a washeteria, and no, it was a washeteria after. The family that owned that building lived upstairs. There was a white family. I remember the lady, I can't remember exactly what was downstairs, but I do know they lived upstairs and the grocery store was owned by a Jewish guy. I don't remember him living upstairs because I used to live right there on the corner on Forty-second Street, but so many people who owned businesses lived upstairs over their business. KT: Well, one thing that's interesting in talking to some people. It seems like a lot of the businesses, one of the things that happened for Mr. Fonvielle, for instance, at the pharmacy was that once the community started, once people started to move away that and once they were able to shop in the desegregated stores, a lot of his clientele would just go to the chain pharmacies. So ironically desegregation had a negative impact on some of the black businesses there on the strip. That doesn't seem to be your case because you were able to carry your clientele. LW: Yeah. KT: How did desegregation impact your-- 13

LW: I never had a great black business. My business was not so much on a one to one basis. I went mostly for the commercial business, and that's the only way I survived. I just could not-i did not depend on walk in customers. KT: I see. LW: I did not depend on the neighbors coming in because I could've gotten that kind of work, but it would be too time consuming. A lady who knows what I can do, I also did designing. You could bring me a dress out of a magazine, and I can copy it for you. Who wouldn't want that kind of work, but I was giving more than I was receiving. They're not going to pay for the work that I put into that. So I knew that in order to stay in business, I had to make money in volume. So I had to go out and get commercial work and to keep the people that were working for me busy. KT: Well, tell me-how then did when Broughton Street started to go down and some of those stores started to move off Broughton Street and close down, did that affect your business? Were a lot of those some of the people you contracted with. LW: Well, it affected my employees' business because I didn't need as many people to do alteration, but then I went into another phase of business in my shop. I started doing bridal clothes. I would do some directing, and I also would make clothes, but what helped me more in not being a copy cat, I went out and got my fabric from places out of the city. I didn't buy locally to do my bridal things. That's how I maintained my business, but still that was a little harder on me wherein that my employees would make enough money for my overhead. I was the chief employee there. It worked, I enjoyed what I was doing, but it just worked me a little harder, and so I cut down on some of my employees. KT: But you were pretty much forced into the bridal business. LW: Yes. KT: By the decline. LW: Yes. It was easier doing the commercial alterations. It was faster money. KT: In some ways more routine. LW: Right. There were times when I was doing mostly the children's clothes from the two stores that, VIP shop and Lad and Lassie when that money that I got from that particular company paid all of my overhead. Everything else was just off the top for me. 14

KT: In '74 then you needed to move, right, because they were selling the building. LW: No, '62. I moved where I am in 1962. KT: Oh I'm sorry. LW: Yes. 1962. LAURA WADDELL KT: Okay. So was it at that point, that's where you stayed, from '62 until this past year. LW: Right. Right. KT: Okay. LW: When I say twelve years later when I bought the building. KT: I see. Oh, so you eventually bought that building. LW: Not only did I buy the building the shop was in END OF TAPE 1, SIDE A 15

START OF TAPE 1, SIDE B KJERAN TAYLOR: To because you were thinking about buying a house at that time. LAURA WADDELL: Yes. Uhhuh. KT: And you, instead you have to basically buy the building. LW: Right. KT: So you became a landlord at that point. LW: That's right. The apartment, I mean, yeah, the apartment is four units. It was a rather big piece of property. KT: Your space and then the four apartments. LW: Uhhuh. KT: Were there any other commercial spaces in there or no? LW: No. Well, honestly my shop was big enough to make two businesses out of because it was like two thousand square feet, and at one time I did rent out a portion of it for another person who wanted to do hats, but that didn't last long. I just almost gave her free rent until she could get her business organized. But it was always more space then we could use. The front part of the shop was usually used for the people who worked for me, and I had the back of it set up for my alteration and dressmaking that I did and my bridal stuff. It was almost like two different businesses in there because I had dressing rooms up front and dressing rooms in the back privately for the brides when they came in. KT: How do you get into that business? LW: Well, I did a little bit of advertising. After doing a little bit of advertising, Savannah's not that big, and once you do one bride, the word gets out especially if it's a real nice wedding. Like I say, most of my clientele being mostly predominantly white, and I say about sixty percent of the white clientele was mostly Jewish. Jewish families spend quite a bit on weddings especially for the brides and especially Orthodox weddings. You have to really put a lot of time in it. There's not too many places that you can buy unless you go to New York to buy a nice wedding dress for an Orthodox wedding that is going to be covered up. All of them are always so bare. So most of the Jewish women like to have their clothes tailored for their girls. KT: So what was the difference between an Orthodox and a Reformed Jewish wedding? 16

LW: Well, you can see the difference in the wearing of the clothes for an Orthodox girl and a regular girl. She's not as bare. KT: So it's more material. LW: That's all. They don't want their girls to be uncovered. But yet still, they've got to be fine. They've got to be very best. They don't mind spending a lot of money to see that the girls are beautiful, but they just don't want, they don't want the bareness to be shown. They have beautiful, beautiful clothes. My last Orthodox wedding was two sisters. They both got married in the same month, but not the same day, and boy, did I work for that wedding, but it was beautiful. KT: So you must've done the dresses for a lot of pretty prominent Savannans. LW: Oh yes. Yes, I have. That's what I miss the most. When you love your work, it comes to a point you don't think about the money, but you've got to have the money in order to stay in business. But I would just put so much time and energy in it, and people notice that. They notice that you do care, and that's what makes your business thrive because you can't pretend with people when you're doing a job like that. They know whether you really care about it or not. I get so excited when I start working on a wedding, and I want to know all of the details, and I really put all that I have into it. KT: Were you doing more than the dress? LW: The wedding, you mean the bride's dress. KT: You would do the whole, you would do the party, right? LW: You mean plan the party? KT: No, you would do the bridal party. LW: Yes. KT: The grooms as well? LW: No. I would do the alterations mostly for the groomsmen. But I would most times I'm in on everything that's going on because they would ask my opinion, and if they find that you know something about what you're talking about, they want you to be there to assist them in all of it. I have really enjoyed being a part of the whole wedding. KT: So you were almost functioning as a wedding planner. 17

LW: Right. It's so many times that if a family knows that they can get the information that they need to help them through the situation, they don't need a wedding planner. You end up being a wedding planner, and then you don't even know that you are. That is what has happened with me with a lot of weddings because having done so many there's some pitfalls that a family might not know. When they start asking questions and asking where can I get this or what should I do about that or what color flowers and all. You end up doing it because you have the knowledge, and they don't even need a wedding planner. You've done it all for them. KT: But I could see where that might be a problem if you're not officially the wedding planner because you find yourself doing a lot more work than how did you guard against that? LW: I didn't guard against that. I just did it. It came apart at the end of my career and my business where I could afford to spend the time with a bride and the family and it didn't hurt me financially. KT: Because you were pretty much- LW: Yes, and I have been retiring for five years before I really retired trying to come down, and really it took my last, when I did my last wedding, I said now this is it. last year. KT: No more. LW: No more. But it was a joy to do that one also. KT: When was the last one? LW: My last wedding was in, I think it was, I retired in July. So my last wedding was in May of KT: As your business is continuing through the '70s and to '80s did you find, was there much assistance from the city in terms of recognizing you as a small business owner with a thriving business, an important business that's serving as an anchor on the street? Did they lend you much support in terms of~ LW: I think I did more for the city than the city did for me. Now why I say that is that I didn't ever remember a time when I actually needed them after I did these two programs with the low-income students. I wouldn't say I didn't need them, but I have not gone to them for assistance. I have always been involved in civic things in the city. I have like my neighborhood, I'm a member of my neighborhood organization, and I will always be, I have always been kind of present on things that were happening in the 18

city. So most everybody knows me, and there has been no time that I have gone to the city for a loan. I've always been able to maintain my business through the bank or whatever. I've always had good credit. With our neighborhood organization, there was a time about five years ago when the city brought in some neighborhood planners into Savannah. They were going to station them in certain areas of the city so the residents could come to them with their grievances before they went to the city with them. They asked me being in a centrally located place would I agree to let one of the planners use my business as one of the places to be. I gave them a free spot in my office. Let them hook up their own telephone system in my shop. I didn't charge them. They didn't pay me any money for that. They stayed there for about a year, not a nickel did the city give me for that. They didn't have too much, I don't think that particular program worked so well because I don't remember too many people coming in there speaking to the planner about any problems. They're still, they didn't do it well enough because sometimes there were very few hours the young man spent in the office anyway. But I knew a lot, enough people that worked for the city that if I needed to go to them I could've gotten some assistance if I needed to. But that's about all I can say. It's getting better. I've seen the people, a lot of people working for the city now that I am not there, and I don't need to go to them, but they really seem to be doing a much better job. I'm not saying it's because of the new administration that's in now or what it is, but I do know where the office is down West Broad now and the housing department, they seem to be a little bit more informed than they were in the past. KT: What about in this neighborhood here, I know that basically African-American residents have been forced out of down town and midtown just by the, with them coming in and gentrifying all the houses. Is this neighborhood yet under any kind of pressure like that? LW: I think so. I definitely think so because our taxes have really increased quite a bit. My taxes here are almost three times higher than they were three years ago. That house next door, which is a rooming house, and there are ladies of the evening coming and going all around here. They even sit on the church steps over here at night. If we call the police, they will come. But I'm not going to be up at three o'clock looking out my window just to call the police. We're all lights out at eleven o'clock in this house. We're asleep. KT: How long have you been in this house? 19

LW: About thirty-eight years. KT: Oh, okay. You've got some time in this house. LW: Yes. Yes. Yes. And honestly we are the only house in this block that cares about the property. My husband is constantly out there cleaning. When you leave here you can just stand somewhere and look at the whole block. KT: As I was driving down the street, I mean, your house definitely stands out. It's one of the exceptional-well, they're all beautiful homes. They're just not kept up. LW: Aren't they? Yeah. We had a problem a couple of weeks ago, a couple of, yeah, I'd say a month ago. From Barnard Street to this house right here, on the sidewalk was so overgrown and so full of leaves and stuff that they have not done anything for the last six months. It took me two months to get the city to come out and cut the limbs because it is on the property owners' part of the street, and they say they have to get in touch with them. But people couldn't walk down the sidewalk. The limbs were overhanging on the sidewalk. I wouldn't have noticed it because we drive, you drive everywhere you go, but my husband and I started this walking thing, and I couldn't get by. I said I don't believe this. Then I started going to the library, which is walking distance from my house, and the sidewalk was so littered with leaves and filth until it took me almost a month and a half to get them to come out. They have to pass the request from one department to the other. I just got furious, but they finally got it taken care of but for how long. It's already started growing up again. If people don't constantly take care of the property and by them being on that part, the traffic is coming down all of the leaves and trash end up in my driveway. I'm the only one cleaning around here. KT: Yeah. Definitely see that. I'm wondering as in kind of the last, you said that you had been thinking about retiring or you have been for the last- LW: Five years. KT: Five years or so. I mean, it sounds like as far as business goes you could've continued doing it. LW: Oh I-you want to know why I retired. KT: Yeah, basically. LW: Because I'm tired and old. As far as my customers, I could've- 20

KT: Oh that's no reason to retire is it? LW: But I have another chapter in my life that I'm trying to work on. KT: I mean, you've only been at it for fifty plus years. Right? What is it that you're trying to work on next? LW: Well, I didn't mention the fact that all of my life I've been halfway following Mr. Law in his footsteps. I have been on several boards with him, and I have been working with one of the charter members of another organization that he founded before he opened the civil rights museum. Before we opened the civil rights museum, while I was still working at my shop, myself and a few people from the, not visitor's center, from the Chamber of Commerce gave us a bus. Some of our members of this organization that Mr. Law had founded, which is called ASLA. We went to Birmingham to look at thenmuseum. He wanted me to be a part of this because I've known him all of my life. He was my Sunday School teacher and all this stuff. We all attended the same church. His mother and my mother were friends. They baked cakes together, and although I was not being groomed to work in the museum, he wanted me to either be on the board or be a volunteer or whatever because he wanted me to be a part of what was going on. He knew I was interested, and he knew that whatever needed to be done, if they needed me, they know they can depend on me. So when we went, we went to Birmingham to see how they operate the museum there. I have been along with the group, I mean, I have been along with the museum longer than anybody who is there now. KT: So you're still active down at the- LW: I am on the board of directors now at the museum, and I always wanted to be able to have the time to do more of this. Even with my church, which I'm a member of First Bryan Baptist Church in the same neighborhood to where I was born down in Yamacraw Village, some of our ladies down there and I, we have a reading center, a reading room for the children. It's just a one unit in the village that they have given us, and we have a little library there for the kids. We were fortunate enough to get some computers. One of the banks gave us some computers. I think we have about ten or twelve computers where the children can come and do homework in the afternoon. It's been kind of rough this summer because some of the volunteers are also school teachers, and they have to go school sometimes for six weeks in the summer. So we'll try to be down there at least four days a week. 21

KT: Okay. So you're doing a lot more of civic and volunteer work. LW: And I'm trying so hard to learn how to use the computer. KT: It's not coming too quickly, huh? LW: Well, I haven't had time to take the proper training yet. But I'm slowly. I'm online now. I have an email account and all this stuff. KT: It's just like sewing, isn't it? LW: Not really. That sewing comes like this, very easy to me. KT: No, I thought learning computers was easy. I could never, I couldn't sew LW: Of course, you did because you're younger than I. Your mind is faster. KT: I couldn't sew a button on. You still own the building though. LW: Yes. KT: What are your plans for it? What is it? LW: Well, I really have not thought of any far plans about the building. My son lived in one of the units, one of the apartments there and the business is rented; I have it leased. KT: There is somebody in there. LW: Oh yes. KT: Who, who moved in? LW: A young man called Michael, Michael's Beauty and Barber. He has a thriving business, gosh. He has a two-year lease, but he has a very good business. I think he has about five people working for him and his wife. He does ladies' and men's hair, and he's open five days a week. KT: How about your equipment? LW: Oh I sold most of my equipment. I brought some of it home. I sold most of it. KT: You were able to sell most of it to people. LW: I mostly gave it away, but I got rid of some of it because I had quite a few piece of KT: Was it hard to walk out the last day? LW: No. No. No. KT: Oh come on. 22

LW: No, it wasn't. It really wasn't. It wasn't because I thought about how long I'd been there and what I had really accomplished. It seemed to me that I can look back on it. I did what I really wanted to do, and I was finished with that. That's kind of-i really don't know I could've come to that decision, but I really feel like I had given enough. I feel like I did a good job. I really feel like I did a good job. At least I tried to have done a good job, and I was through with it. I'm going to do something else before I die. I don't want to die in that shop because I felt that there were a lot of other things that I could do. Then my husband felt, I reckon he kind of halfway saw that the work was, it was too much of a task for me to be--. If I were employed, it would've been different. But being the owner, I had to be there on time. That was the one thing I can say that I remember about my friend W. W. Law. He said if you're going to have a business, don't let anybody get there before you do. If you are supposed to be open at nine o'clock, be open at nine o'clock and close on time. Give yourself some time to enjoy your business but be positive about your business. That's what I've-I would go to that shop at nine o'clock if I had no appointments, nobody coming in or what. I was always open on time, and I was never, my shop has never closed for vacation except for the last three years that I was in business. Like I'm going on vacation, the shop is closed. I had employees. When I'm not there, my shop better be open. If you knew you had something that needed to be done, you didn't have to guess whether Laura was open. She was open. The shop was open. customers. me. KT: What was the name of the shop? LW: Laura's Tailor Shop. KT: Do you sew still? LW: Occasionally because I love it. KT: You still love it. LW: I do, but I don't do a lot of it, and I don't want it out that I do because I don't want any KT: But just for yourself and family. LW: Yes. The city was really nice to me when I closed. I got a beautiful article written about KT: Oh they did. 23