The Collapse of Creation Program No SPEAKER: JOHN BRADSHAW

Transcription

1 It Is Written Script: 1385 The Collapse of Creation Page 1 The Collapse of Creation Program No SPEAKER: JOHN BRADSHAW John Bradshaw: We look around society and we see something as clear as day. The environment seems to be falling apart. The news is full of such reports. Scientists are making claims whether it's about global warming or a person's carbon footprint or the Ozone layer or air pollution or just regular old pollution. It certainly seems that today's world is not the same as yesterday's world. It seems that we are sinking. Today, on It Is Written, we are going to look at that through the lens of Scripture. Does the Bible support this view? Is there anything we can do about it? And what does the decay of our environment suggest about the fulfillment of Bible prophecy? My guest today is Scott Christiansen, a Christian minister and author, a seminar presenter and someone who has worked in various locations around the world in positions that have enabled him to see environmental change up close. Scott Christiansen, thanks for joining me. Welcome to It Is Written. Scott Christiansen: My pleasure. Thank you. JB: What does the Bible have to say about the decay of the environment? Anything? Nothing? Something? Much? What? SC: Well, the Bible says that there will be tremendous decay in society as a result of sin. Let's go to Isaiah 51:6 where the Bible says the earth will wax old as a garment and basically be falling apart. And let's go to Romans 8:22, where the Bible says that all of creation groans. I look at this verse and it is clear that it is because of sin. Why else would a world that was created in perfection be groaning? JB: In fact, Paul wrote that creation wants to escape the bondage that it is now experiencing. SC: Absolutely. JB: Let me up the ante a little bit because there is a verse that comes to my mind in the Book of Revelation, Chapter 11 the nations were angry, your wrath has come and so on.

2 It Is Written Script: 1385 The Collapse of Creation Page 2 The nations were angry, and your wrath has come. The time has come for judging the dead, and for rewarding your servants the prophets and your people who revere your name, both great and small-- and for destroying those who destroy the earth" (Revelation 11:18 NIV). The end of that verse says that God will destroy those who destroy the earth. Does that mean what it sounds like? SC: That God is an environmentalist or that He is angry over the destruction of His planet? JB: That God cares about the environment and that destroying the earth is not good. Is that what it means? SC: If we look in Job, we are told that the morning stars sang at the creation of the Earth, and we know that God was excited about His creation. He looked at it and he said it was very good. What we have not really appreciated previous to this, as Christians, is that sin affects man profoundly and it affects the earth itself, profoundly. I mean, there is a reason God hates sin and there is a reason that it needs to be eradicated completely and the earth needs to be re-created, because sin only subtracts. It only takes away. It only decays. It only causes death. It adds to nothing. ` JB: Let's discuss some of what we see specifically, because the Bible says the Earth is falling apart and it connects it to sin. Your average environmentalist is not going to connect the dots like that. Let's be specific. What do we see in the world today that suggests the environment actually is falling apart? SC: Well, if we take a look at the systems that God created let's talk about systems instead of just minor specifics around the globe. When I talk about systems I mean, our atmospheric system, our climate system, our oceanic system, our fresh water system and our food-production system. You know, soil was created and the Garden of Eden, food production, and human society were created as part of the creation week. Let's take a look at the system that is falling apart the most rapidly, our oceanic system. JB: Ok. SC: There are good studies out, validated studies out, published studies out that project that fisheries on a global basis will be essentially depleted, will be collapsed within 25 years and we are on a steep downward slope when it comes to fisheries and that is a big deal. There are a billion people who rely upon those fisheries for almost all of their food. JB: And billions of others who rely on the fisheries for some of their food.

3 It Is Written Script: 1385 The Collapse of Creation Page 3 SC: When you have a growing population, beyond seven billion and we are at a razorthin margin between what we produce and consume every year and you take the food for a billion people out of that equation, that is a very big deal. Our soils are being systematically degraded. We have very poor practices across the globe. More than 20 million acres a year consistently are taken out of food production because they are totally degraded. JB: Wait a minute. How much is 20 million acres? SC: Well I come from the state of Maine, and that would not quite be the entire state of Maine, but it would be a lot of the State of Maine. That is a lot of area. JB: So, it is almost the size of Maine. SC: Yeah, almost the size of Maine. We have to remember that some of that is slash and burn in the tropics, but there is also farmland that has been farmed for a very long time that has just become so degraded, it comes out of production. JB: But essentially that much land is taken out every year because it is worthless now. SC: It is, yes. JB: in terms of food production. SC: That's correct. JB: Well, that's dramatic. Okay, keep talking to me about food production issues. I can see that this is directly related to population issues. There are more people to feed now. SC: There is an organization out of Boson in the US called NECSI (New England Complex Systems Institute), and they are fairly easy to find, and their published studies are easy to find. They have taken a look at the 20-year or beyond price chart that is published by the United Nations, that shows significant price spikes in food. We had a long period of price stability followed by significant price spikes over the last five or six years. They issued a graph showing that at the peak of those price spikes were rebellions and uprisings and conflicts within nations and between nations and basically what they are saying is, "look, there is a perfect correlation between price spikes and the increasing instability in society. So if you go back and you say, Okay, we are really on the razor's edge on a global basis on food, and our ability to produce is declining, and our oceans are crashing. We get from there directly into societal instability, and we get there directly into conflict, and you can reference from there Matthew 24, wars and rumors of war. We see the iron links between the environment and its accelerating degradation, and the fulfillment of prophecy.

4 It Is Written Script: 1385 The Collapse of Creation Page 4 JB I am very interested in the idea about food production and the environmental issues that are squeezing food production and, therefore, squeezing populations. Let's talk more about that in just a moment. EVERY WORD DEVOTIONAL Not long ago I found myself in the midst of a storm a big one. Trees were uprooted, and roads were closed, and there was a lot of damage but the storm passed as storms do. The Bible talks about the mother of all storms in Daniel 12:1, and encourages us that there's hope, even in the midst of great trial. "There shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation, even to that time. And at that time your people shall be delivered, every one who is found written in the book." A time of trouble such a never was, but God's people will be delivered. If it looks to you like the world is getting worse, the truth is, you ain't seen nothin yet. But the greatest truth is that God's people are going to be delivered. RETURN TO PROGRAM JB: We are talking about the environment and its relationship to the Word of God, in particular to Bible prophecy. My guest today is Scott Christiansen. Scott, let's talk about where we were just a moment ago, food production. Now, you know, where I live, I can eat what I want, when I want. It doesn't seem like there are many food production issues to me. Let's discuss this on a global basis and talk about how the collapsing environment is actually affecting food production. SC: First of all, many of the people watching this program are going to be from North America or Western Europe. These are the areas on the globe where there is an abundance of resources, not necessarily an abundance of food but an abundance of resources they can afford food. Well, let's take as an example Corn Flakes. Let's say you are having Corn Flakes for breakfast, and let's say the price of corn doubles, as it did last year. Let's say that your Corn Flakes are not going to double in price because of packaging, because of marketing, because of all the things that go into those Corn Flakes, the actual corn in your Corn Flakes is probably only 20 cents or so. So when the part of your Corn Flakes, you pay $4 for that box and when the price of corn doubles and it goes up to $4.20 you don't even notice. Or if you do notice, maybe you notice just a little tiny bit. But remember, there are 3.5 billion people on the face of the earth that are making $2.50 a day or less, and they are s pending from 50 to 90% of their income on food alone. That much of their budget goes to food, and so when they are buying literally a handful of corn or a handful of wheat or a handful of rice and prices significantly increase, where is that money going to come from so that they can keep getting the minimum amount of food that they need? These price spikes profoundly affect billions of people on the face of the earth and we don't even notice in North America.

5 It Is Written Script: 1385 The Collapse of Creation Page 5 JB: Okay, what are some other systems. You talk about God-created systems. These systems are being affected by sin, causing decay environmentally. What is another one? SC: Well, we talked about oceanic systems. There is also our fresh water system. Around the world aquifers are being pumped out, and this is a huge deal because they are being pumped out to keep irrigating crops. These aquifers fill up very, very slowly. They fill up, if you will, on geological time. So when these aquifers are pumped out, either to give a major city water or to irrigate crops, there is no replacing them. This is happening all over the world. It is not sustainable. And let me take as an example the Ogallala Aquifer underlying eight states in the Central and Midwest US, and this underlies a significant area of grain production, and in fact, it provides the water for everything above it the industry, cities and agriculture. It is shrinking at the edges, and it is expected to be completely depleted as a resource within 25 years. JB: What happens if this thing disappears? SC: Well we just can't produce the grain and we can't have the cities that are there, and the industries there. There is nothing to replace it as a resource. JB: But can't we just build a desalination plant and pump water in? SC: Well if there is an endless supply of energy, yes. And that is a very expensive thing that is being proposed, especially if we do it with oil. But if there is an endless supply of energy, then theoretically we could do many things. You're talking a river flowing in reverse to make this thing go and maybe if this was our only problem in the globe, we could fix this one thing. People say "what's going on?" and there is no real answer to that until you start talking about the effect of sin. From a Christian perspective, sin is the problem. Christ is the solution. JB I think what we are going to do, in just a moment, is talk about the big picture. The environment is collapsing. We see markers everywhere, signs everywhere telling us that this is a planet in distress, a planet in decay. Is there a way out? What does it mean? What is the ultimate solution? Let's cover that next. SC: Very good. JB: Our discussion today is centering on the relationship between the decay we see in the environment around us and the signs we read about in the Bible, the spiritual implications of an environment that seems to be collapsing. Scott, let's talk a little bit more about some specifics, where we see, maybe some alarm bells, ringing in the environment.

6 It Is Written Script: 1385 The Collapse of Creation Page 6 A moment ago we talked about the global food supply and we discussed a couple of things that would concern anybody. Looking at it biblically, the Bible does say that the earth is going to deteriorate, wax old like a garment. In fact, it would be destroyed according to what we read in Scripture. What are some other areas where we see signs that really ought to alarm people and point them to what the Bible has said about the environment? SC: It's an interesting question, really, because we only live so long. For us to go back and say well here's the amount of damage over the last 400 years and here is the extent to which it is accelerating at our current age. That's a tough thing. There is a book called The End of the Line that looks at the oceans as they exist in written records 400 years ago and 300 years ago and these were incredibly productive oceans. I mean, these are oceans that were just filled with life. I mean, you could just harvest and harvest and harvest. As late as 1940 and 1950, the oceans were thought to be limitless in the amount of resources that they were able to give. Now, scientists are calling this the Miocene era, the age of slime, when most life forms in the ocean are either declining or dying and our oceans are transitioning to an environment where they are really hospitable for algae, fungus and bacteria. JB: Are we really seeing an increase in recent years or are we just better at observing? SC: No. We are seeing an absolute decrease, if you will, in the amount of resource. JB: An increase and a decrease. SC: Yes. If things happen slowly enough and they happened over a multitude of lifetimes prior to say, 1960, we weren't really noticing degradation in the environment and in addition to that, the population burden on the planet was half of what it is now. Now we have got more people, we've got more pressure and we are seeing a greater and greater acceleration in the decay of the actual planet itself. We are beginning to see impacts on society, and we are sitting up and taking notice. It is a big deal. JB: What is the end game? What is the way out? Can it be fixed? SC: No. My response to this is, what is your proposal for reversing the effect of sin? Well, let's put it like this. What is going on in the world is very serious, very serious and for Christians who study their Bible and who look at the signs as Christ laid them out in Matthew 24 and who connect the dots, is our sense of urgency commensurate with what we see around us? Are we rising to the crisis that is at hand and to the end of time? These are very big questions. JB: Should I be worried about whether or not I am going to eat? What can I do or should I buy a house with a great big basement and stock it with beans and rice and wheat? Is that what I should do?

7 It Is Written Script: 1385 The Collapse of Creation Page 7 SC: Well, the Bible tells us that we should not worry. In fact, it tells us in Matthew 24 not to worry because these things must happen. And the Bible also tells us that our bread will be sure and our water will be sure. The question is: Are we working for our Master? Are we fulfilling the great commission? If we are not close to Christ, if we don't know Him as a friend, if we are fully of the world and not of Christ, then there is a lot to worry about. There's a tremendous amount to worry about because the world is ending and we have no hope. If Christ is our Savior and we are fully committed to Him and looking away from the world and toward His coming, then we don't need to worry but we do need to work. JB: So there is a Savior who has pledged to take care of those who trust in Him. SC: Yes. JB: Even though that the world might be falling apart around us. There is a hope, is there? SC: There's great hope. There's tremendous hope. JB: Prophetically, where do you think this leads us in the overall flow of Bible prophecy? SC: Well let's go to Scripture. I focus on Matthew 24:6-8. There will be wars and rumors of wars, etc. In Matthew 24, Christ walked his disciples through what would happen in history, relatively near-term history, but also what would happen at the end of time. As with all great prophecy, it had a dual application and so we know the waymarks. Christ himself articulated the waymarks for us that we were to watch for. And I look at this and we are early on in the final waymarks. But these events happen very rapidly at the close and so we are headed towards what some call a time of Jacob's trouble, a time of little trouble, a time of great disruption on the earth, but before the time of tribulation and Christ's coming. The point is, because we don't know exactly when those things happen and because we don't know exactly the way between here and there, the point is we are living in the End Times. We are living in prophetic times. We are living in historic times. JB: So is it fair to say that if we didn't have some of these environmental pressures in the world then we might not see last day Bible prophecy being fulfilled with the rapidity that it is being fulfilled. Is that what you are saying? SC: That is what I am saying. If we open our eyes we can see things that are pointing to Scripture and that are pointing to prophecy and the fulfillment of that prophecy. In Mark 13:32-37, we are told repeatedly to watch and to pray. We are told to watch. We are not told to watch without being given something to watch for. So in this time we are seeing the culmination of the effects of sin and we are seeing that bleed into or actually be a causative of prophetic fulfillment. That's a big deal.

8 It Is Written Script: 1385 The Collapse of Creation Page 8 JB: Yes it is. I wonder if we can talk about the direct link, how we get from cause to effect. There we were in the Garden of Eden, everything was very perfect. Eve and then Adam ate the fruit that was offered them by the serpent. Things went on pretty well, it seems. Now God said things are going to change. For instance, thorns were going to grow. SC: That's right. JB: So thorns, the direct result of sin. SC: Thorns are the direct result of sin, but this is also under debate because God placed three successive curses upon the earth. There is the curse of Adam. We have to till, sweat of your brow, and there are horns and thistles. So would this curse have come without sin? No. Would thorns have come without this curse? Well, there's room for debate there and I will leave that to the theologians. But the two, it's definitely one piece. But then there is also the curse of Cain where again the productivity of the earth is cursed. And then there is the final curse if you will, which is not an explicit curse, but what else could the flood be called that turned a beautiful and perfect world into a world that is not productive the way it used to be? JB: One thing I am interested in is that you say, very appropriately, I believe, that it is hard for us to really gage this as we might, because we only see a very thin slice of the pie owing to the fact that we live on this earth such a short time relative to its longevity. What do you think we would think if we saw the world before the flood? SC: I think we would be heartbroken that we can't live there now. I think we would be so stunned by the beauty and the peacefulness and the security. You know, the earth that was created to delight us daily and astound us daily and yet we have to live here. Those who have hope would be excited and those without hope might gain hope through Christ. But really, if we knew what we were missing out on, and we're talking earth, not heaven, you know, we are just talking the earth and heaven is so much more glorious. If we knew what we were missing out on, I think we would have a very difficult time just enduring our lives here. JB: The signs around us tell us Jesus is coming back soon. SC: Absolutely. JB: The environment says we are headed in a certain direction. It isn't good. Scientists are trying. Governments have treaties and protocols and proposals and so forth. Nothing is working, is it? SC: No. The consequences of sin must be fully known so that rebellion does not happen again. We are told in Revelation that Satan was in rebellion and took his angels with him so this can't happen again and Christ says, you know, these things must happen. These things must take place. So there is no fix. But look. Here is the thing, you know, and I have said it before. Does our sense of urgency match the current situation? Are we fully

9 It Is Written Script: 1385 The Collapse of Creation Page 9 awake? Are we on our A game for Christ? Are we working in a way that the current situation calls for? And no, we are pretty much asleep as in Matthew 25. JB: There are certain things environmental issues that we might see in the world that perhaps there are I don't want to say solutions for but other ways of doing things. But there is something that appears to get in the way very often and that is human greed, which is sin. SC: Right. JB: So if we could only take sin out of the picture we might have ways to deal with certain environmental issues, certain environmental problems, certain pollution issues. But whenever somebody has a dollar in the game, a bottom line to protect, that old greed instinct kicks in. Self gets involved rather than selflessness. It seems as long as there are people who are not committed to Jesus and who are living for their own self rather than for Christ, there is just no way out. SC: Well, I think this is an argument for why the earth has to be recreated and why humans are changed in the twinkling of an eye. Nothing that is tainted by sin will make it into the new earth and will make it into heaven. I mean you talk of basically the power of sin, the power of sin to decay, the power of sin to destroy. We see it in the world around us. We are coming to the point, even with our short-term observation, that we can see it in the natural world. It has to be obliterated for us to be able to return to an earth that is not in decay. JB: The message is the earth is going in one direction but the good news about that is that it is telling us Jesus is coming back soon. SC: Absolutely. JB: Surely there is no more important work we can do now than to be ready for the Lord's return. SC And this is the big question. Are we ready? Really, this is where the rubber meets the road. We see the signs. The earth is decaying. We see prophecy being fulfilled. We see the fullness of sin, both in man and the earth. Are we ready? Do we know Jesus Christ as a friend? Are we ready to lean on Him in the days ahead? Are we ready to embrace Him when He returns? This is the actual question. JB: Scott Christiansen, it has been wonderful. Thanks for taking the time. SC: My pleasure. JB: God bless you.

10 It Is Written Script: 1385 The Collapse of Creation Page 10 OFFER It may be the best promise in the whole Bible I will come again! Jesus who died to save us is preparing a place for us and is coming soon to take us there! But such a promise raises obvious questions: when will He come? how will He come? and how can I be sure I m ready? It s important to separate fact from fiction, and I d like to send you a FREE booklet that will walk you through what the Bible says about the return of Jesus. It s called, The Second Coming of Jesus. Just call (800) and ask for your copy of "The Second Coming of Jesus. If the line's busy, please try again, or write us at It Is Written, P.O. Box 6, Chattanooga, TN We'll mail a free copy to you in North America. It Is Written is a faith-based ministry and your support makes it possible for us to share God's good news with the world. Your tax-deductible gift can be sent to the address on your screen, or via our website at ItIsWritten.com. Thank you for your continued prayerful support. Again, our toll-free number is, (800) , and our website is ItIsWritten.com. RETURN TO PROGRAM As we look around the world it seems that there is no doubt there are signs that ought to alert us that Jesus is coming back soon. The question is: Are you ready? When Jesus comes back, will that be good news for you? I hope so and He hopes so too. Let's pray together that when Jesus returns, it will be for us the best thing that has ever happened. PRAYER Our Father in heaven, thank you that we have a hope, hope through all of the signs, hope through the distress and decay, hope through an environment which is creaking and waxing old, that Jesus is coming back soon. And I pray that when he does, He'll gather us together and take us with Him. Lord, there is just one thing and that is if Jesus owns our heart. Friend, as we pray, would you yield your heart to Jesus? Would you invite Him now to be your Lord and your Savior? Would you let Him live His life in you? Father, please do those things and we will look beyond the decay of this world to the hope we have in Jesus, to that wonderful day when He comes back. Keep us until then, I pray, in Jesus' name, Amen. It Is Written PO Box 6, Chattanooga, TN USA Tel: Fax: