Christ in Prophecy Apologetics 5: Barger on the Emergent Church

Transcription

1 Christ in Prophecy Apologetics 5: Barger on the Emergent Church 2011 Lamb & Lion Ministries. All Rights Reserved. For a video of this show, please visit Opening Dr. Reagan: The Bible prophesized that in the End Times Christianity will come under increasing persecution, that prophecy is being fulfilled today. All across the world millions of Christians are being verbally abused, physically harassed and yes even murdered for their faith. But these attacks as terrible as they maybe are not the greatest threat to the Church. The greatest threat comes from within the Church in the form of apostasy. Stay tuned as we talk to one of Christendom s foremost authorities on spiritual apostasy. Part 1 Dr. Reagan: Greetings in the name of Jesus our Blessed Hope and welcome to Christ in Prophecy. We have a great friend with us today, his name is Eric Barger and he is the Founder and Director of an apologetics ministry called Take a Stand. Welcome Eric. Eric Barger: Thank you David, I appreciate it. Dr. Reagan: Eric we just love the name of your ministry, at least I do, I like it Take a Stand! More people in Christianity today need to do that don t they? Eric Barger: That s right. Dr. Reagan: How did you come up with that name? Eric Barger: Well originally the ministry was called Where Do You Stand? and we felt like that was too much of a question mark. We wanted that explanation point at the end, Take a Stand! Because Dr. Reagan: Not a question mark, huh? 1

2 Eric Barger: Exactly we wanted to portray that the standing with the Scripture and standing with what the Lord has given us to stand on was the most important thing, not questioning where do we stand, but taking a stand. Dr. Reagan: Yeah well we certainly need more of that in Christendom today brother. Well folks also in the studio with me to help me interview Eric is our Web Minister Nathan Jones. Nathan is involved in apologetics on a daily bases as he talks back and forth with people all over the world concerning both Bible prophecy and the fundamentals of the Christian faith. Nathan welcome. Nathan Jones: It s great to be here, thanks. Dr. Reagan: How about you starting us off? Nathan Jones: I would love to. It is great to see you again Eric. Eric Barger: You too. Nathan Jones: Okay, if were are going to talk about apologetics we need to know; what is apologetics? And if you are an apologist does that mean you travel all over the world apologizing for Christianity? Eric Barger: I have a pastor friend of mine that I have known for many years; he is really a mentor to me, one of my mentors. And he wrote me a letter one day, just a terrific reference letter and I didn t ask for it- it just came in the mail, it was a great reference. I was just so blessed that he said those things about me. Well the next day I got a letter from him saying, Eric Barger is the greatest apologizer you will ever find. Bring him to your church and take him around town and he will apologize for everything. It was a spoof letter, and we had a lot of fun with that, you know. Dr. Reagan: Where does that term come from Eric? Eric Barger: He meant the first letter by the way. Well the term apologetics comes from the terms in the Bible 8 times, apologia it is the Greek word, which is an able defense of the faith. So apologetics isn t about being sorrow for anything. And there are all kinds of Apologists out there; there are Democrat, Republican, Muslim, Christian, Mormon, all kinds of Apologists out there. Well I am a Christian apologist, I am standing on what the Scripture says on the Bible, and I am trying to give answers and reasons for our faith. And the most famous use of that is in 1 Peter 3:15, Be ready always to give an apologia, or an answer. 2

3 Dr. Reagan: Okay, so you are not apologizing. Eric Barger: I am not apologizing. Nathan Jones: There is nothing to apologize for. Eric Barger: That s right Jesus carried all of my sorrows, and He has taken care of all of my shortcomings, and I am not perfect but I am forgiven and I am helping people to understand the defense of the faith. And that is where we all ought to be. Dr. Reagan: Well what kind of topics do you cover in your particular ministry? For example do you get into a discussion on cults? Eric Barger: Sure, we deal with the cults, we deal with spiritual warfare, and really all I do, the whole genre of the ministry is spiritual warfare of some sort. I have written a book on the occult and how it has become popular in our culture. I deal with current issues in the Church, and that may be the thing I talk about the most these days. But when you deal with occults, and you are exposing the false doctrines in the cults that is another word called polemics. So you kind of mix together and sometimes when you are defending the faith and expressing what the truth of Christianity is, you are also exposing false belief systems so they kind of go together. Dr. Reagan: So you are talking about cults, you are talking about occults, you are talking about spiritual warfare. You even get into discussion of music don t you? Eric Barger: I do, I was a rock musician for many years, I was a record producer, recording engineer, and I say I was a professional drug addict back in those days. Dr. Reagan: You also had a little longer hair, didn t you? Eric Barger: I did. I wrote three books on the secular rock music industry back in the 1980 s, and our ministry slowly evolved into talking about, you know the cults and talking about the occult, and now of course dealing with the church. Dr. Reagan: So you would maintain that music can really have an impact on a person; what they think, how they act. Eric Barger: The lifestyle of it had an impact on me. I wanted to be like my hero s, my role models, who were the musicians in the 70 s, in the 60 s even when I first began to start to play. 3

4 Dr. Reagan: Well I know one topic that you are very interested in and are speaking out on more and more all the time. And I praise God for the fact that you have the boldness to do it and that is; the Emergent Church Movement. Now what in the world is that? That is such a strange name. Where does the name come from? What is the movement all about? Eric Barger: It has only been around about 15 years, but yet there are millions of people who have fallen into it. Dr. Reagan: And many don t even know it. Eric Barger: Really, I want to caution people, don t be hung up on the term emergent or emerging church, we need to know what we believe and why we believe it first. But we also need to be aware that there are a lot of things being called Christian, or being called acceptable inside Christianity around us. And the emergent church movement is really based on the idea that we need to present the Gospel in a different way. Or present Christianity in a different way to the world because we live in a post-modern society that can t accept what truth is, and we don t want to talk too much about things that divide us. We just want to have an expression of Christianity that feels good to us. Dr. Reagan: Now you just used a term that many of our viewers will not be familiar with. You talked about we live in a post-modern society. What does that mean? What are you talking about? Eric Barger: Well, the idea of post-modernism is that truth is kind of a moving target. Some of the viewers maybe familiar with the term epistemology and that is kind of the spot where knowledge, where we come to a place of figuring out what knowledge and truth are. In the Emergent Church movement it is all about relativism. It is kind of like you make up your own rules as you go along. And as I have examined the Emergent Church leaders the single thing that I have seen over and over is that they use terms that we think we relate to, just like many of the cults do, but they have attached radically different meanings to those terms. Dr. Reagan: Well you know if seems to me what we are really talking about here is the fact that we went through a period of time where people thought that the answer to all man s problems was science and science was going to solve everything. Well science didn t, in fact science made it worse with atomic bombs and so forth. And so are we in a sort of point of rebellion where people are saying, You know really science isn t it. We ve got to move to a 4

5 more mystical way of thinking, non-scientific, feelings. What are we, again I want to get a hold on what is meant by post-modern. Eric Barger: I ve got you. Well, the emergent church and post modernism kind of move hand in hand because the emergent church was supposedly a response to post-modernism. Dr. Reagan: That s right, yeah. Eric Barger: You know the people who first came up with these concepts, I believe they were genuinely concerned about so many of the 20 something, and 30 something people leaving the Church and not coming back. And they were trying to figure out how they could draw them back into the church. But quickly the discussions started turning on the idea of maybe we don t need to hold all the doctrines of the Church. Maybe some of those doctrines, like the doctrine of the trinity, or the doctrine of deity of Christ, or certainly the doctrine of Hell, we can do away with all those kind of things. And you know it will draw those people back, and so it s not just about a new way to present the Gospel, it is about a complete change of what people think the Gospel is. Dr. Reagan: Nathan, almost on a daily bases, I guess really on a daily bases you are confronting post-moderns out there. How would you give us a feel for what a post- modern mentality is? Nathan Jones: It is experiential, truth is what you experience, you filter reality on how you see things. So if the Bible says that Jesus is the Son of God, well I didn t experience Him in my life like that, so He must be an angel or something like that. That is how they come up with their truth. The Bible isn t the absolute thing that it used to be to the post-modern generation. Dr. Reagan: Yeah, so it is really a rejection of absolute truth, the concept of absolute truth, and it is more feelings. You re truth is you re truth, and my truth is my truth. And actually if you are going to discuss something like homosexuality you don t go to the Bible and say, What does God say about it? You say, What do you feel about it? Eric Barger: Yeah. Nathan Jones: It is the ultimate ego trip because you have become God, you decide what is right and wrong, and you can live in a reality that totally conflicts what, how the world works and that is fine with you. And everyone is supposed to get along and tolerate each other s ego trips. 5

6 Eric Barger: What he is saying right there sounds just like defining the New Age Movement. It is all about you making up your own rules about what you think it right. The real problem here is that in the emergent church movement, in the Church in general the lack of authority or lack of respect for the authority of the Bible is the key problem. The Emergent Church would not be an issue if the Church is willing to have its Bible open and test everything that comes along, including what we say against the Word of God to see if it matches up. Dr. Reagan: In fact I recently ran across one of the books in this movement is called, something about Elvis. What is it? Eric Barger: Velvet Elvis. Dr. Reagan: Velvet Elvis. Eric Barger: Yeah. Dr. Reagan: And the young writer of that who is one of the leaders of this movement actually makes a statement in there that the idea that the Bible is all we need is absolute nonsense. Said, it sounds good, but we need much more than that. Eric Barger: Yeah, he said, It sounds good, but it is simply not true, is the way that he ends that statement. You know when I wrote my first book back in 1987, we wrote it with paper and a typewriter, if you can imagine that in our computer world today, you can hardly imagine that. But I remember the editor of that book came in and I worked with her for several weeks and she threw the manuscript down on the desk and she looked at me, actually our kitchen table, she looked at me and said, Do you really believe everything in this manuscript? I said, Yes. I had never seen that look on her face. She said, Are you sure? I said, Yes. She said, Good because once it is in print you will have to defend it. When somebody writes in their book that the Bible isn t all that we need, they are making their stand. Unless they do a great retraction, and repentance, of course this particular author says that, Repentance isn t about Christianity. But anyway repentance, if somebody is teaching about repentance they are not talking about Christianity. Dr. Reagan: Well in just a moment what I want to do is have you get very specific about some of the doctrines, or lack of doctrines that characterize this particular movement. Okay? Eric Barger: Okay. 6

7 Part 2 Dr. Reagan: Welcome back to our interview of Eric Barger, one of Christendom s most eloquent defenders of the Christian faith. We have been talking with him about apostasy in the Church today, and we are focusing on what is called the Emergent Church Movement. Eric what are the basic doctrines of this movement? Eric Barger: David I think that s probably the problem is that they really don t have doctrinal standards, they have changed the doctrines of the faith. I sat in an Emerging Church Conference with one of the key speakers, maybe the godfather of the Emergent Movement and he redefined what different terms in the Bible said. He says the term the world is about us saving the earth. He said. Dr. Reagan: So John 3:16 is about saving the earth? Eric Barger: Exactly you could read John 3:16 to say, So God so loved the world, He sent the Emergent Church to save the planet. These folks are very much into Dominionism and Kingdom Now; the idea that they have all the answers and we are going to be one happy religions family here on the earth. So really it is a doctrinal problem. In fact they believe in the disillusionment of what they would call cold hard facts, we would call it doctrine. The word doctrine has become a dirty word in a lot of circles, and we have decided to preach the plans of men instead of the Bible. That is what so many pastors have done. And I encourage pastors that are watching that they would come back and preach the Scriptures, preach the Word that is what their people need. That is what we all need. But they want they disillusionment of cold hard fact, in favor of a more warm and fuzzy subjectivity. They also, they believe that evangelicalism and fundamentalism have failed us and that those terms, and those ideas should go away. And they really adopted a more mystical idea that is closely aligned to the New Age Movement, much more than the Scripture. Yet, they call themselves Christian. Nathan Jones: And Evangelical too, right? Don t they call themselves Evangelicals? Eric Barger: Well that is it. Nathan Jones: They are getting everybody confused. Dr. Reagan: You know the term Evangelical has ceased to have any meaning. Eric Barger: It has. 7

8 Dr. Reagan: It used to mean that you stood on the Word of God for everything you believed in. These guys call themselves Evangelicals and that is the least thing they are concerned about. Eric Barger: In one of my presentations on this I am making the statement that the Emergent Church Movement leaders should just be honest and claim what they are doing is not Christian, and come out of the closet and tell people that s not Christian. They are advocating everything, or many things that the Scripture speaks clearly against. Dr. Reagan: And a lot of it reminds me of the old liberal Social Gospel. Eric Barger: Well, Dave I call this a redo of what happened 150 years ago. Dr. Reagan: Right. Eric Barger: Today it can go much quicker because of the advent of our modern technology and communications. Dr. Reagan: We are to be concerned about saving the earth. There is no concept of Jesus coming back anytime soon. In fact Bible prophecy is a laugh to them. It is instead we are going to go out, save the world, and we will conquer the world and one day we will give the Kingdom to Jesus. Eric Barger: That s right we are going to facilitate His return. And you will find the Environmental Movement really steaming under the surface here inside the Emergent Church Movement. But they have a disillusionment of Christian doctrine and really don t want to hang onto it. They believe that the doctrines of the faith are really immaterial and this is why they join hands with Ecumenical Movement with all kinds of other religions and really have become their own cult. I ve been saying openly that they really should just admit they are not Christians. What they are doing is not biblical, not Christian. Of course they don t want to talk about these doctrines, anytime you mention doctrine to them in any kind of a debate whether it is on-line or through s or in person, they run for cover. Dr. Reagan: And I understand that a lot of the churches they take approach to preaching of getting up and saying, Okay, we are going to talk this week about the virgin birth or whatever. So what do you feel about it? And actually ask people in the audience and they get up and make their comments and all and it is like, I feel this. And I feel that. Who s to say who is right and who is wrong? 8

9 Eric Barger: Well in liberalized circles or emergent circles if you ask the question for them to all discuss the virgin birth you will come out with Him not being born of a virgin. Dr. Reagan: Well, I know that. Eric Barger: And that is not being the Savior, because if Jesus wasn t born of a virgin we are still all lost. And I would question why in the world do we want to be in church Sunday mornings since He wasn t the Messiah. Dr. Reagan: Another thing Nathan Jones: Who is Jesus then? Dr. Reagan: Go ahead. Nathan Jones: I m sorry. Eric Barger: Exactly. Nathan Jones: Who is Jesus then to the Emergent Church? I mean do believe that Jesus is the Son of God? Or who is Jesus to them? Eric Barger: I think some of them would and there are varying degrees of this. But at the same token Jesus becomes more of just a social justice figure. Dr. Reagan: Yes, very much so. Nathan Jones: People feeding the poor and all, not saving their souls. Eric Barger: And that is part of the deal. But I mentioned earlier in the show I was at an Emergent Church Conference and this was all about saving the planet, not the lost people. Dr. Reagan: In fact what was their invitation? Tell about their invitation. Eric Barger: Well, in this particular conference this happened in Nampa, Idaho, at the end of this session, this particular teacher that we are staying away from talking about him by name, but this particular teacher told people to come up, and if they really understood his message of redefinitions of Christianity, which is what he had done all evening and had been doing for 2 days. Dr. Reagan: Yes. 9

10 Eric Barger: He said, Take water from the vat that is up here on the table, and rebaptise yourself into the new Christianity. Nathan Jones: The new Christianity. Eric Barger: The new Christianity. I have never heard of anybody baptizing themselves into the real Christianity. But then he said, While you are up here, make sure that you put your hands in the tub of dirt. And these were his words Dr. Reagan: So they had dirt up there? Eric Barger: They had a farmer s tub that you would feed livestock in full of dirt. And he said, Put your hands in there to feel what needs to be saved. Dr. Reagan: The earth. Eric Barger: Yes. Dr. Reagan: Mother earth. Eric Barger: I was there with another pastor and we had taken notes, copious notes all through the conference. That is exactly what we both heard him say. And no one did it by the way, now one went up. But the idea was this is what they advocate. Dr. Reagan: Well another aspect of this movement that I am picking up more and more on, and of course it changes everyday, it is just moving all over the place; is more of these guys it seems to me are buying into the idea that there are many different roads to God. And who are we to say that Christianity is the only one? Eric Barger: Yeah, I knew you were going to get into universalism. Nathan Jones: You knew where it was going. Eric Barger: I knew when he started that, I knew it was coming, because really this is. Dr. Reagan: But it is true, aren t they doing this? Eric Barger: Yeah, and they are adopting one of the two brands of Universalism. One that says, That all paths to God, all religions are equal. And the other one that says, That everybody is all ready saved. Dr. Reagan: Oh. 10

11 Eric Barger: That is a form of Christian Universalism, and you would find that I think in the Emergent Movement as much as anything else. Dr. Reagan: Isn t that something well? Nathan Jones: If someone is in their church, we have this good friend of the ministry in England and she is in tears because her children are in an Emergent Church. And their church used to be a really solid Bible church, and all of sudden one day they woke up and realized they were emergent, her son wasn t really believing in the faith anymore. What are some of the signs when you are church, to start seeing your church, and I bet you are going to say missional. Eric Barger: Missional would be one of them. Dr. Reagan: Yeah, what are the red flags here? Eric Barger: Well let me speak to the people who may have gone through that experience, or who are currently going through it. Or maybe right now in this program and they are watching it and all of sudden they realize they are not alone, there are so many people who have been divorced from church if you will. It is the name of one of my messages, because of apostasy; apostasy scatters the sheep. And this thing either very slowly or very quickly has moved into all different kinds of churches. Dr. Reagan: All, I mean all. Eric Barger: We can t pick on one denomination as being emergent or leaning that way because it is way more then that. I develop this little brochure, How to Spot the Emergent Church in Your Church, and we will probably get a better picture of it and put it up on the screen. But it is a quick and easy read, just a tri-fold pamphlet, two sided that would explain to people what to look for and Dr. Reagan: What are some of the points? Eric Barger: This would be one of the points; Emergent Christianity is experience over reason, spirituality over doctrine, images over words, feelings over truth, earthly justice over salvation, and social action over eternity. I write here, The Emergent Church movement takes it name from the idea that the culture has changed and a new church must emerge in response to it. So they are saying that the old way of Christianity doesn t work, and if we want anybody to come to our churches we ve got to change the way that we do it. Well it is our responsibility as you all know to be faithful to the Gospel. It is God that saves the people and He gives us ingenuity on 11

12 how to be creative and so on to let people know that we are available to them and let people know that we want to minister to them. But we can t afford to change the Gospel because we say that the Post-Modern Generation will never accept it. I believe this is one of the implications of the end times, that there will be a rejection of Christianity. So I understand where some of the emergent s are coming from, but they would say that we ve got to change to reach the postmoderns. But what they don t realize that I believe this is one of the symptoms or one of the scenarios of the very end days that we are in today. Dr. Reagan: You know the Gospel is supernatural; you don t need to do all kinds of manipulative things. Nathan Jones: Yeah, 2,000 years. Dr. Reagan: You preach the Gospel and people will be convicted of their sins. Eric Barger: That s right, that s right. Dr. Reagan: But it seems to me that this is an attempt to get around trying to really confront people with their sinfulness. Eric Barger: Well, this comes back to the whole Church Growth Movement that says that we want to stay away from things that are confrontational. We want to be light and fuzzy; we want people to only think good things, feel good things. Nathan Jones: Seeker sensitive. Eric Barger: Exactly, and that s not the whole Gospel. You know Jesus is a God of love; He is also a God of justice. We ve got to preach both, we have to preach the whole Gospel to be effective, otherwise we preach what Paul called a different Gospel. And I encourage people to go and read the book of Jude, and read Galatians chapter 1, and it clearly outlines that this stuff is going to come, this stuff is happening, we need to be contenders for the faith. Dr. Reagan: This list you just gave us is very interesting and one of them in there that jumped out at me was images over words. What do you mean by that? Eric Barger: Well, they are into the labyrinth you know, and we want to teach meditation techniques, they sing in spiritual formation, and the idea about contemplative mysticism, we want images; we want to feel good, we want to Dr. Reagan: It sounds like we are going back to the church of the Middle Ages. 12

13 Eric Barger: It really is. Dr. Reagan: So physical over mental, there is no mental. Eric Barger: Yes, and they would say, Well the labyrinth was something the church used. I am saying, Find it in the Bible for me. Dr. Reagan: Yes, well I know of one Evangelical Church, where the pastor suddenly announced one week that he had put up card tables in the foyer, and on each table was an icon a Greek Orthodox icon and he said, Go and kneel at the table and there will be instructions on how to pray to the icon. This is an Evangelical Church. Eric Barger: We are hearing this all over the place. I know of a church close to us right here in North Dallas, where we are at the moment and I am headquartered out in Rowlett, and have been in contact with a lot of people in this area. A medical doctor called me about what was going on in his former church, they were a church of about 800 or 900 people, they had shrunk to about 200. But he said that when you walk in the door the incense knocks you down on Sunday morning. They have candles that light the hallway all the way to the alter, where you are to pick up a stone and take the stone back to your seat and meditate on it. Dr. Reagan: On the stone? Nathan Jones: On a stone? Eric Barger: I mean this is the kind of stuff that is happening today. And we focus on this stone, and focus on this stone. Dr. Reagan: Rather than the Word of God. Eric Barger: Exactly. Nathan Jones: Yeah, we are supposed to meditate on the Bible. Eric Barger: It is a abandoning of the Word of God to take up feelings, and take up images instead. Part 3 Nathan Jones: Welcome back to Christ in Prophecy and our discussion with Eric Barger on the Emergent Church Movement. Now Eric I have heard that your ministry has produced a 13

14 video called, The Errors of the Emergent Church. Would you tell us little about how we can get that? Eric Barger: Sure, The Errors of the Emergent Church, is over an hour long, and it deals with the doctrines, it deals with what the Emergent Church believes. I name names in it, lots of the leaders, quotes from the leaders. And above all it is a call for the Church to come back to the Scripture. I think it is an important piece of work and it is the first of the two videos, the second video is called, Is Your Church New Age, Emergent, or Christian? And that Nathan Jones: Hmmm, that would be handy. Eric Barger: asks the question because we quote New Age leaders, we quote Emergent leaders, and then we quote the Scripture. It is amazing how much the New Age quotes and the Emergent quotes could be interchangeable. And that is an hour long or so too. So those two are available on our website at ericbarger.com, and we have a number also I think we will probably put on the screen, that folks that don t have internet access can call that number. Dr. Reagan: What about that brochure you showed us a few moments ago? Eric Barger: How to Spot the Emergent Church in Your Church, is a little quick and easy to read brochure, we have that on our website we would be glad to send them out if folks would want to ask for it. But folks can go to our website and print those out and hand them out to their friends, we encourage you to do that. Dr. Reagan: Do you have a newsletter or mailing list that they can sign up for? Eric Barger: We do, we do a print newsletter, we also do updates every other week. Dr. Reagan: Okay. Eric Barger: And you can find that all over our website, places to sign up, or they can call the phone number and do so. Dr. Reagan: Great. Nathan Jones: Excellent. Dr. Reagan: Nathan, let s hear from you. How about telling our viewers about our website and how they can contact you with questions. And you ve got about 2 minutes to do that in. 14

15 Nathan Jones: Okay, I would like to introduce you and ask you to visit that is our website. If you want to know about Bible prophecy, apologetics, Emergent Church, watch our videos this TV show we put on there so you can watch that. We have an e-newsletter that goes out twice a month that gives you updates on what is going on in the world in the way of Bible prophecy. We have a blog called The Christ in Prophecy Journal just click discuss, or go to lamblion.us, and if you need a daily dose of Bible prophecy you can go there and we ve got an active group of people that discuss. We also have a Facebook group called the Christ in Prophecy Facebook Group, and you can link through there through our discussion section on our website. There is over 4,000 people talking about Bible prophecy, sharing what is going on in the world, and encouraging each other. So if you live in a part of the world and that is the wonderful thing about web ministry, if you live in any parts of the world and you need to share, and be with other Christians where you are not getting that where you are, then please come visit us on Dr. Reagan: Now you can, a person can actually write in and ask you questions right? Nathan Jones: Yes, if you have a question related to Bible prophecy please just click contact us on the top of any page on the website. The will come to me and I will try to answer your question the best I can, and Dr. Reagan will. Dr. Reagan: And we have some of our videos, some our television programs in particular that people can watch on-line right? Nathan Jones: For the last few years we have been compiling a lot of the Christ in Prophecy episodes, I think we are up to now 140 TV shows that you can watch on website. Dr. Reagan: And our magazine can be read on-line. Nathan Jones: All the Lamplighters for the last 10 or so years are also available. Most of the main articles are all on our website. It s just been a great opportunity to put that together, make it a great repository. And we are leaving it for those after the Rapture. Dr. Reagan: You also have a store on there, don t you? Nathan Jones: Yes, if you would like to purchase any of our videos or books, Conference videos anything like that, you can go to lamblionresources.com, or just click store on our main website, and please feel free to purchase. If you would like to give a donation to the ministry you can also do that through our resource website. 15

16 Dr. Reagan: You know Eric I have been really excited ever since Nathan came with us and took over this website ministry because for a website to be truly effective you ve got to be on it everyday, changing it, responding, and this is an interactive thing. We don t call him a Web Master, we call him a Web Minister because he is seminary trained, and he knows how to respond to Muslims, people of all kinds all over the world, answer questions for them. And it has been a great blessing to me, particularly when all these really tough questions come in I just give them to him and say, Hey buddy, take after them. Nathan Jones: There have been a few times I have contacted Eric. Eric Barger: We ve been in contact back and forth, you know. Nathan Jones: What do I do with this guy who is possessed? Eric Barger: It has been great. Dr. Reagan: Well we love to have people like that, that we can resource to. Eric Barger: Sure, sure and you are right. I try to keep our website fresh too. And I find that a great deal of my week is taken up in answering questions and trying to get people answers. Often times I can just head them towards a page on my website, or on yours. Recently I sent links to your website. Nathan Jones: Excellent. Dr. Reagan: Well that is great. Well folks that is our program for this week. I hope it has been a blessing to you, and I have a wonderful announcement to make and that is that Eric has agreed to be back with us next week. We will be discussing with him the question of; how do you cope with apostasy? Until then this is Dave Reagan speaking for Lamb and Lion Ministries saying, Look up, be watchful for our Redemption is drawing near. End of Program 16