AUDIENCES ALLAHABAD. January - February Dr. Roles Dr. David Connell. Translator S.M. Jaiswal

Transcription

1 All Rights Reserved. A Record of Audiences & Correspondence with Audiences in Allahabad January - February Dr. Roles, Dr. David Connell AUDIENCES ALLAHABAD January - February Dr. Roles Dr. David Connell Translator S.M. Jaiswal The original Volume commences with a synopsis of the 1969 correspondence which, as it has been included here in full, has been omitted. 387

2 A Record of Audiences & Correspondence with All Rights Reserved. Tuesday 20 January First Talk H.H. Asks about our state and our health. R. We are very well and glad to be here indeed I have been afraid that we had left it too long! and it is very good of you to see us at such a busy time. Here is Dr. David Connell, the son of a doctor friend who was at school with me; he has for the last four years been empowered to initiate; you have heard some of his questions, for instance, the one about Chakravartin. (H.H. nods) But first, would you like us to meditate with you? After Exchange of Greetings and Meditation about 20 minutes or more. R. Said we have studied all the correspondence through Mr. Dixit, and we have had full reports of your talks with Mrs. Halsey. Is there anything you wish to say about this? H.H. Mrs. Halsey only had two talks of an hour each, so her questions were rather general except for one which was personal. One question she asked was about the story of Lakshman and the ring, and in what sense was it said that both the views of the world as seen by Lakshman when under the water and by Rama were illusory. The story tells of two states, one like a dream world in sleep, and the other the world we ordinarily see when awake. The world of dreams has no independent existence only the memory of one s experience in the common waking state would appear in the dreams according to one s attachments to certain types of experience. When awake the dream world is known as illusion. For the benefit of people under discipline this example of one world and of two states of our own experience is described in the story, so that they may understand the validity of the third state (which knows both of those as illusion). Taken rightly, the other two states should be regarded just as an actor regards his rôle in a play (now on stage, then off-stage ). R. This story has made a deep impression on some people at home who felt that if they could really understand it, they would be clear about many important things. Are not these states being experienced simultaneously? After all, we have the Atman within us experiencing the conscious view of the world while the I (Ahankara) is experiencing the illusion. H.H. Agrees, but adds: There are two types of people the knowers and those who don t know. In the case of the knowers, all their activities conform to their inner state and the way they understand the world. For them there is no attachment and for such a man life is just a drama or play, so he is free and happy. The ones who don t know, they keep looking to the result of their activities or actions and because of this, they get bound to chains of desire, activity, result. So many diseases can overtake someone in such a state and this results in a poor growth and poor state of health of the physical body which causes, of necessity, both a closing of the mind as well as cramp and tension of body and muscles. In due course this leads to illness of mind as well as body. R. This truth about life being a drama or play causes great antagonism in Western people. They believe so intensely in their own ideas about the motives of their actions and the results they expect to get from them, that they feel they can t carry on unless they believe in what they are doing. H.H. Not only in the West! This is a common problem. Here in India also there are some people enjoying great so-called success in life they have a well-ordered household, and do a very efficient day s work with good material reward for it. But only when they get a glimpse of their peaceful Self, or when they see the peaceful Self in other people, only then do they realize the importance of the peace and the Self, and the nature within com- 388

3 All Rights Reserved. A Record of Audiences & Correspondence with pels them to look for it. Some make efforts and even if those are not obviously successful they at least cherish the idea. This factor alone is a ray of hope that they will turn to the simple and fundamental idea of treating the world as a play, and yet be effective and happy. D.C. When a doctor is dealing with serious or difficult diseases, he becomes very concerned with the result he is trying to achieve. How to get over this dilemma? H.H. Atman is, in fact, surrounded by three bodies, physical, subtle and causal; and all the three bodies are inter-related. On the physical level there is a healthy state and a state of many diseases. On the subtle level of the mind, there are also diseases caused by wrong points of view as well as those resulting from physical disease. In fact, ultimately, all the physical diseases owe their origin to something wrong on the level of the mind. Bad emotions further can come through to the emotional centre (Bhawana) in the causal body. [After discussion we agreed that this word stands for something very like what we have called the Higher Emotional Centre]. The ailments of the subtle and causal level must be treated according to their own levels. The emotional centre is not only feeling but also is close to the seat of pure Cognition of Truth [Viveka which seems to be the Higher Intellectual Centre]. Physical illness must be treated by the appropriate physical means; mental illnesses by good ideas and improved attitudes and ways of thinking; and the causal by fine emotions and emotional Truths. He then gives a simile which can be applied to all three levels. There are two kinds of patient, the one with a physical illness who takes the prescription or recommendation with a smile and in good faith; and there is the other kind of patient who puts up a resistance to the treatment and this negativeness hinders the process of healing. These people must be treated mentally as well as being given physical treatment. There was a millionairess from Delhi who suffered from diabetes. She was very fond of sweets. These she used to obtain secretly from her servants. This was unknown to her doctor and her family, who became very concerned, because the more her doctor treated her the worse she became, because of the secret eating of sweets. A new doctor was called who visited her before breakfast and examined her and suspected that something was in her stomach; though she denied having eaten anything. Her relatives also said she had no food for three days. But in fact she arose early and obtained more sweets from the servants and ate them. The new doctor still suspected she had something in her stomach. By persistent questioning of the servants, he found the true state of affairs and so was able to put the matter right. As for the dilemma, there is none! If one attends to one s work, the result takes care of itself; for the result is bound only to attention while at work. R. Your reference to emotional centre in the causal body being subject to disease came as a surprise to me and I must think more about it. But wouldn t this conception explain also the possibility of healing through the purified emotional centre as for instance by faith (Shradda) between a man of higher Being and a receptive patient? H.H. Certainly faith can heal, and the presence of a Conscious Man who has this particular power can effect healing through the causal body. (Looking at the two doctors): Likewise memory of the Realised Man in the moment can help to effect cures, together with medicine. At our Sixth and later meetings he said much more about Faith. 389

4 A Record of Audiences & Correspondence with All Rights Reserved. R. You will be having a busy afternoon and evening and you have given us an hour. Would you like us to go? Dr. Connell has a question. H.H. indicates that he would answer more questions. D.C. Would it be possible to ask a question about the meditation? H.H. Time for one or two (smiling). D.C. For many years I have thought about meeting you, and am happy now so to do. Over the years since 1960 I have grown to value the meditation, and although I have not always treated it with respect, as I have not always treated my wife with respect, I have become wedded to it (H.H. laughs) I would like to ask during meditation when a glow of joy is felt in the heart how can this experience be deepened? (This didn t seem to get across as an emotional glow). H.H. Mrs. Halsey asked the same question about a glow in the physical body. There are stages in meditation; The beginning stage when you get the knowledge of it. Then you learn the technique this is the practice side which is the stepping-stone to putting it fully into constant practice which takes time according to the individuals. So that it becomes natural and habitual. To get on to the third stage, you have simply to go along with faith and patience and then this glow of joy will be boundless. R. We have a number of examples also where a hard knock or a disaster or severe illness or operation has unexpectedly caused a glow during subsequent meditation. H.H. Agrees. Again two kinds of people. One kind who has patiently practised meditation over a long time. When they undergo hard situations they are able to cope well with them; in contrast to others who have not continued to practise and who tend to become prostrated or defeated by them (He implied a development of reserves). H.H. gave the following illustration: The young car driver who has only learned the technique of driving and passed his test, will perhaps get on all right in ordinary traffic, until he meets with an unusual situation or emergency, from which the experienced car drive would extricate himself. R. Well now we thank you and express the hope that this torrential rain has satisfied the great thirsty rivers and there will be no more during the Mela! (The Mela a large gathering on the bank of the Ganges with tents). H.H. (laughing) Said that the rains on our arrival were an auspicious omen and the dust would settle and the crops grow and the flu epidemic (which is very prevalent now in India) would abate. R. Perhaps tomorrow we might find our way to the neighbourhood of your tent? (down on the banks of the rivers at the Mela). H.H. (looks round doubtfully at his followers). Yes, many people get the benefits but we take the knocks! Perhaps some arrangements can be made for later. Only later did we understand how much work had to be done by his small staff for every afternoon talk to the crowds. 390

5 All Rights Reserved. A Record of Audiences & Correspondence with Second Talk Wednesday 21 January R. (after twenty minutes meditation) Some of your stories concern a Holy Man and his servant. With Sattva one gets some insight into the meaning of this in oneself. You, yourself, have said that the term Holy Man denotes Buddhi when seeing with the eye of Atman. Would servant mean Manas looking toward outer world? H.H. Started with the observation that the Buddhi is very much like a Realised person provided that it is pure and still. For Buddhi is also subject to three Gunas; when imbued with Sattva then it is taken as the Realised Man. In this context Atman would stand for the Absolute. The difference here lies in how these two deal with the others that come under their domain. A Realised Man never resorts to other than Sattvic means; so whether he is dealing with his servants, dependents, or disciples he will always seek the reasonable and peaceful ways of correcting them. But as far as the Absolute is concerned, it is not essential that he must always follow the line of peace and pursuit of reason, because the Absolute can also take charge of a situation and inflict terrible punishment upon all those who do not follow the law. Particularly he mentioned the demons or Rakshas*, who, when they become powerful have got to be dealt with by force, and this force is always applied by the Absolute. But a Realised Man would never resort to violent means for the creation or the correction of disciples. (*Originally men high on the Ladder who turned to the bad.) It is only through faith that the Buddhi is clarified, or the influence of a Realised Man is made possible to pass into the disciple. Manas follows Buddhi. Buddhi is the faculty which takes decisions of right and wrong; but being also coloured by Sattva, Rajas and Tamas the decisions may also be right or wrong. Once a decision is made, either way the decision is carried out by Manas. Manas, if possessed by Sattva, would present all the impressions gathered through the senses in the Sattvic way as a Sattvic experience; equally with Rajas and Tamas it will give those kinds of experience. In fact, Manas has no power of decision, and never does decide; it simply collects information and passes it on to Buddhi, and Buddhi then deciding what is suitable to the person, the cycle goes on repeating. R. Cannot we, also (in a small way), see this process in ourselves? One does experience what is contained in these stories; and one sees this servant Manas as very unruly. We want to know what to do with him, how to employ him. H.H. The balancing force in taming the Manas is Sattva; if there is abundance of Sattva then Buddhi would always make the right decision. As the nature of our Being is, the Manas would then invariably follow what reaches it from Buddhi. But if Rajas or Tamas predominate, then this natural relationship is unbalanced, so it does not follow of necessity that Manas has to do exactly what comes from Buddhi. If Rajas or Tamas are over-abundant, Manas would resolve to do whatever is at hand without following Buddhi. The best one can do by way of training Manas is to have abundant Sattva in oneself. Once that has been achieved, all the rest becomes possible; and he says that for Realised Men and all those who have risen high in consciousness, their Buddhi and Manas always work together hand in hand. For them there is never a conflict between these two; the conflict arises in people who are predominantly possessed by Rajas or Tamas. He supposes that you remember the story of the ants: There were two mountains and there were ants living on each; one, a mountain of sugar and the other of salt. One day an ant from the sugar mountain went to visit an ant on the mountain of salt. After trying the salt which was not to her taste, she said to the other ant, Why don t you come up to my place? Then 391

6 A Record of Audiences & Correspondence with All Rights Reserved. you ll see what delicious food is available there? So the salt-fed ant went to the other mountain, but, not being sure of getting enough good food, she took along some in reserve and held a particle of salt in her mouth. So when she ate the sugar, because she had salt in her mouth, she said, I don t find much difference, sister, between your stuff and mine. Then the other ant said, Perhaps you are holding something of your own within. Get rid of that, and I m sure you ll see for yourself that the taste of my food is good. When she did this, the salt-fed ant never went back to her mountain of salt again. In the same way, if Manas because of Rajas and Tamas is always looking outward, it will always follow the outer world as the only taste it knows. If it can be directed inwardly and can get rid of the old taste, then it will enjoy working as an obedient servant. D.C. I was very interested to hear yesterday about the causal body and Bhawana. Could H.H. say more to explain this which was new to me? H.H. The causal body is known as the inner instrument (Antahkaran) which you have heard about. In Antahkaran, all these four components are jointed together synchromeshed; it is a single unit, and there is no division in Antahkaran as such. These four parts are for the subtle body where they have to take certain types of action. This unit of the Antahkaran is the source of Bhawana, out of which come the attitudes underlying different types of desire. These desires first arise in Manas (the body-mind mechanism); it is the Manas which arouses the desire. But any desire is always supported by a certain emotional attitude attitudes of liking or disliking, good or bad. So whenever a given person has a given desire, he takes his attitude to it from the Antahkaran which gives it a particular colour the colour that is in his Antahkaran. Manas has no particular colour of its own, but it picks it up from the causal body where everything is united. If it is Rajas or Tamas or Sattva, whatever the colour may be, that will be followed by Manas. (Continues after a pause): Between an activity and its consideration by Buddhi (intellectual discrimination) leading to a judgment as to right or wrong, there is a an emotional state which is known as Bhawana this emanation from the causal body. Manas resorts to activity, whereas Buddhi considers whether right or wrong; and besides there is a judge, as in court cases brought by a barrister or solicitor. All that which is stored is certainly stored in Chitta (the Memory store). There you have these four. R. A practical point is that when we are trying to be One, it is marvellous to think of a single inner organ like the Antahkaran, whereby all the other functions get programmed, rather than analysing one s psychology into different parts. This would be a very refreshing idea in the West the idea of an inner organ with four gears or aspects depending on the concentration of three forces, and on a higher level synchromeshed or integrated. Can we take this as correct? H.H. Agrees that this simile is quite suitable. The whole engine and its power would be much like the Atman Himself, together with the Antahkaran, from which all the forces are derived that motivate the car. And then the engine can be divided into mechanisms such as these four gears Ahankar, Chitta, Buddhi and Manas. Now he goes on to Ahankar and says there are two major divisions: one is Nirvikalpa, the state in which the feeling of I is not related to one separate individual, nor his mind, nor his body, nor any separate thing; but has the feeling of the Universal I with no qualification of any kind. Now the other ego or the feeling of I comes under the threefold division: if a man has Sattva in abundance he will have a Sattvic feeling of I which is very close to the Atman. If it is full of Rajas it will imagine the ego to be composed of Atman or Buddhi or Manas or any instruments of the inner body. If the Ahankar is weighted down by Tamas, then the ego feeling will be equated with the body and its senses. So for him, I the Self, will 392

7 All Rights Reserved. A Record of Audiences & Correspondence with become only that; he looks only after that, and does not bother about anything beyond. This is how the feeling of I gets its threefold construction the same kind of threefold construction is applied to Chitta, Buddhi and Manas also. This is how the threefold division enters into these four. There are thus twelve possibilities for these four parts or four kinds of gear. With Sattva you start the engine and then with the accelerator you apply Rajas and go up through the gears; then Tamas is like applying the brakes or even going into reverse. R. In 1965 you said that it is Chitta which goes up the Ladder of Self-Realization. I understand Chitta as the reflection in our psychology of the Pure Consciousness. Does going up the Ladder mean that Chitta becomes more steady and lasting as you go from momentary impulse to higher steps? Miss Bolton s example given at our last talk was, he agreed, a good description. H.H. Yes, the Chitta is the store of consciousness available at given times and places to the individual; and he gave a small illustration of anyone who has some money: He may not hold the money in his hand, and yet he feels that he is the owner of a certain amount of wealth without needing to count it all the time. This is the way Chitta holds whatever consciousness is available for the individual. By its activity it may proceed from one stage to another stage. At each stage it will know what it possesses, how much it has in its account, how much of Pure Consciousness (Chit) is available. So this Chitta is a store of what is individually available. R. It will then release consciousness in proportion to the importance of the occasion (H.H. assents). Bank managers often say we are overdrawn. (people laugh). H.H. But this wealth is of a special kind. The more you take out, the more is available without end and in abundance unless it is spent in purposes of Rajas and Tamas. If it is used for Sattvic work, there will be plenty available. Then one can never overdraw. The energy of a Sattvic person or a person who purveys Knowledge of the Truth is of this kind. However much he engages himself in discourse to explain the truth to his pupils, or those needing his discipline, the more he does, the more he gets, there is no debit and the expenses are not out-going but self-evolving; so he always adds more, and more becomes available. Although it is getting late, H.H. says he will answer another question. D.C. A few months ago, I was very interested to read in one of Your Holiness letters about Chetan Shakti. Could you say more about this? Note. In a letter of 15 March 1969, H.H. had given an answer (translated by Mr. Dixit) to the question: What is the relation between Atman and Chitta at our stage? H.H. Atman and Chitta are two separate identities, the latter being the name for the Chetan Shakti in ourselves. (Rather difficult to explain in English. But it is something which makes perception, realisation, etc. possible). There is no wall between the two. Hence Chitta can reflect an image of the Atman (if the former is clean enough) like a mirror. The image behaves like an object in the sense that there can be no image without the object... On the Universal level the Chetan Shakti describes the relation between Brahma and Maya; the masculine and feminine aspects of Creation ( woman who assumes many forms and the husband of the woman ); between the producer and the ever-changing show. 393

8 A Record of Audiences & Correspondence with All Rights Reserved. H.H. This Chetan Shakti emanates from the Atman; and it is the Atman itself. It expresses itself as a force which comes out of the Atman, just as the light and the sun are not two different things; one depends on the other as Chetan Shakti depends on Atman. The Chetan Shakti is the force of the Atman as applied to outer or inner creativity of the person. It is always the Chetan Shakti which is used for essential things. (H.H. continues and concludes the talk) He says that the intelligence and wisdom of the wise man before he utters and expresses his wisdom are unfathomable. Nobody can know a wise man by operating on his brain! He must express his wisdom. It is only by its expression that the depth of his wisdom would be known. That (expression) is always done through the Antahkaran. Within the Antahkaran the first ray of wisdom of the Atman is touched off and then the whole machinery is put into gear. Third Talk Thursday 22 January R. H.H. said yesterday and many times before that Buddhi takes decisions of right and wrong. Does Atman impart this to Buddhi through Bhawana? H.H. Buddhi is after all an instrument and the forces which the Buddhi derives are from the Atman; but this force is very much like the light the Light of the Atman falls on Buddhi and after that it is entirely left to Buddhi to deal with the situation. Just like the sunlight on the eyes, so that Light, however it passes whether by a good way or a bad way, is entirely left to Buddhi. So the relative concentration of Gunas would be the responsible factor as to how Buddhi is going to function. If the individual has enough Sattva the Buddhi works in a Sattvic way, if Rajas or Tamas dominate, Buddhi will respond accordingly. Then the question arises: How to improve on this? He said there are ways and means of improving the function of Buddhi and Manas; and to clarify Manas one must learn to have good desires practise having good desires; and to clarify the Buddhi one must try to understand the great Men s approaches, and it s only though those the Scriptures etc. that it is possible to get out of the effect of the Gunas. J. Asked how much Bhawana is responsible for the activity of the Buddhi? H.H. He said that Bhawana puts into action the mind-machine the stand point is given by Bhawana and taken by Manas. Buddhi is not affected by Bhawana as such. But the availability of reason to Buddhi or the quality of knowledge one has, will be responsible in deciding what is right for the individual or wrong; though what he feels may not be true. R. Sometimes the feeling of right and wrong (in relation to one s own thoughts, words and deeds) is clear and strong; sometimes one is capable of violent means and repents afterwards; this difference seems to depend on degree of Sattva and love of Truth? How can this be much stronger in the little time that remains before the death of body? H.H. The time factor does not come into play as far as the subtle body (Chitta, Buddhi, Manas, Ahankar) are concerned. They are not really bound by time. The time, place, etc. dominate the physical world, but with the help of all these four everything moves, stays and remains constant. So though body may be stopped Buddhi will not be, because it functions on a different dimension of time, and because all this concerns Essence (Samskar) passing through many lives. Now the forces which are emanating from the Atman (which he says are the Chetan Shakti) are available 394

9 All Rights Reserved. A Record of Audiences & Correspondence with also to all these four parts of the subtle body. With respective states of the individual they will function accordingly as he has previously said if Sattva is in the lead, the decision is Sattvic, and in that decision one does not need the approval of the other parties. But when the decisions, being governed by Rajas, are not clear, one can experience that every moment decisions are changing and there is always doubt whether the decisions are right. When Tamas has taken over, one would not even know the decision had been taken one would keep on with the activity without knowing it to be right or wrong. The Chetan Shakti is by itself pure, like light, and that s what all these four get. How does pure light turn into Rajas and Tamas? It is by the feeling of I and mine which disrupts or colours the light. For as long as this is there, this pure light is not able to express purity and simplicity through these four factors. Decision which is taken under Sattva will transcend all time. You take decision today and it will stay the same even after ages. So the decisions taken by Brahma, and Nara and all other Rishis (which he has previously mentioned) stand even today. Their decision taken under the pure Light of Atman is still the same and that s why Buddhi is not bound by time, space and matter. Example: Take a glass bottle and put in clear water and allow it to stand and then there is no movement. You can see into the water and through the water in the bottle. The colour of objects seen through the bottle will be unchanged. If you put red colour into the water in the bottle, then the water is red, the bottle is red, and objects seen through the water are red. You can add colour after colour which will change the pervading colour, and if you end by adding clay it all turns into dark mud which is opaque; so then you can see neither the water in the bottle nor any object through the bottle. First situation is Sattva where everything is clear. The second case, with the red colour, is the Rajasic situation. The last case of the mud, is the Tamasic situation where the water is opaque. If you have mud in the bottle and you want to clear the water, then you add alum* to the water and slowly everything subsides to the bottom and the water is once again clear. This alum as far as Buddhi is concerned, is the sayings and Scriptures left by Realised Men and the Pure Reason (Viveka). Through the sayings and the Viveka of Realised Man, the Buddhi will be cleared. (Viveka corresponds to Higher mind or Higher Mental Centre in Mr. Ouspensky s terminology.) *Strictly Alumina (Al 2 O 3 ) the oxide of the metal aluminium, and most abundant of the earths. When precipitated (by adding ammonia to a coloured solution), it carries down the colour chemically attached to the flocculent precipitate. How to alter the situation which we suffer from? Only the strong desire for purity can change things. If the desire is strong, then some movement towards Sattva is possible. If the desire is weak, our efforts will be weak. So the key to transformation of muddy substance into pure, is the intensity of the desire for purity and simplicity. The colours which he mentioned that are added to the bottle are related to the desires of the mundane world. The more you entertain those desires of the mundane world, the more muddy and cloudy the water (mind) will become. The mud and the turbulence and the colours which come into play (according to the illustrations) are one s desires but are subject to movement. It means they come and go. To get them out can be done only through this Sattva, Pure Reason (Viveka) and the study of truth. All the turbulence can go can easily be removed to restore the light of Atman shining through the purity and tonality of Buddhi, purity of Manas, and Chitta and Ahankar; so to clear these things one needs to have strong desire. 395

10 A Record of Audiences & Correspondence with All Rights Reserved. R. Would not this require a change of the emotional attitude that lies behind the desires which he spoke of in connection with Bhawana? H.H. He says the emotional attitude or push is very essential to make the desires strong. All these will come within the compass of the activity of Manas. So this emotional attitude will also be essential. J. Asks for clarity as to the relation between Bhawana and the other four contained in Antahkaran. H.H. These four divisions of Antahkaran manifest in the subtle body in two places. One centre is felt in the heart, the other centre in the head. Two of these four are felt to be stationed in the heart the Bhawana and the Chitta. The thinking processes and Buddhi, and the sense of I are stationed in the head. The Consciousness reflected in Chitta and the emotional part are centred in the heart. The strength of the heart is greater than the strength of the head. If someone has held something very dearly to his heart the reason can do little to dislodge this; merely thinking it is right or wrong, changes nothing. R. I am glad to hear the ego feeling is in the head of everyone. I thought it was just this doctor s head. (laughter) H.H. continues: Say you like a food, but you know it is not useful for your body and yet you refuse to accept the dictates of reason and take the food which you love. This always emanates from the heart which Chitta pervades. If something is held by Chitta dearly, it will not leave very quickly. It will leave if the Buddhi matures with Sattva. If Sattva prevails, the mind and heart work together hand in hand. If they do not work hand in hand, there must be a scarcity of Sattva, and Rajas and Tamas have in some way taken over. So the decision of any person who is full of Sattva will always be clear and without any doubt today or tomorrow. He again mentioned the story of the Delhi millionairess. Though she knew that it wasn t going to help her, she succumbed to her desires because of the Chitta. D.C. Does the causal body contain anything other than the Antahkaran? H.H. The composition of the causal body depends not only on the Antahkaran, but the Light of the Atman also. They are the centre of all Chetan Shakti which one feels through the body. But there is a particular place where this is felt first and then it is distributed throughout the body, and this again is how one feels anything which is happening in the body. The Tamas and Rajas are described in this illustration: If you take a mirror you see the image of your face. The common man considers in his ignorance that the image is the real thing. This is one of the illusions the other factor is the dust or colour which lies on the mirror. Whatever dust or colour is on the mirror will obscure or colour the reflection of the face, which will look ugly or distorted. Note: Or the mirror may be badly constructed not true but concave or convex. In fact the face within is never ugly so the light of the Atman reflected in the causal level of Antahkaran is pure, and yet because of the contamination of the Antahkaran due to Gunas, you see things and people in varying colours. The only way to remove the dust and false colour from the mirror is to understand that the image is illusory but the face is real; only the light of pure Reason, the Viveka, can help to remove both these illusions. 396

11 All Rights Reserved. A Record of Audiences & Correspondence with D.C. How does one recognize the Light of the Atman, Chetan Shakti, in oneself? And the light of pure Reason, the Viveka, is this a quality of the right functioning of the Antahkaran? H.H. Another illustration about Chetan Shakti: You can see fire as something which emanates heat. Take a ball of iron which is hard and black. When you put both of them together then the iron ball will turn into a red ball of fire. In fact, the qualities of both have penetrated each other. In the same way Antahkaran is the materiality into which the Light of the Atman is put. They both become One. The Antahkaran takes the qualities of the Chetan Shakti. The Chetan Shakti takes part of the qualities of the Antahkaran. This is how this unit functions for the individual and is felt by the individual. The rise of the Viveka is only possible through discoursing with a Realised Man or discoursing with those who are wiser than you. Discoursing and trying to get at the Truth about things will bring Viveka. R. Last night I had bad dreams about Rhakshas. I was bound and punished by the Absolute. I didn t want to become like that (laughing). Hearty laughter from His Holiness when heard. Then a prepared question from R. Are not the Laws of Nature themselves powerful enough to punish those who break them. Why did you say yesterday that the Absolute himself intervenes to punish? H.H. Rules of Nature? Nature is of the Absolute. So if Nature prescribes anything against the law-breaker, it is only from the Absolute itself. So there is no difference between what Nature does and what the Absolute does. It is all from the same agency. R. Is the Atman in the individual an advocate for him with the Absolute? The Christian Scripture says: We have an advocate with the Father, namely Jesus Christ. Is the Atman in a similar situation? H.H. This illustration of the rôle of Christ is very common everywhere, even in India. This rôle which you have given to Christ is in India given to the Teacher. The Teacher is the one who joins the common man to the Father or to the Knowledge from the Absolute. By his virtue, by his existence, he is connected to both of them because he knows the Absolute; through the physical body he is a part of the common life as well. Just as a crocodile can move in the river from one bank to the other bank whenever he wishes to, so this is the quality of the Teacher who can communicate with both sides. Another example is the boatman. He takes people from one side and delivers them to the other. And he can bring some back (ferry) from the far side to the near. In the same way a Teacher gathers the level of common man and takes them towards the Absolute and also brings some of the Glory of the Absolute down so that he can install this Glory in the society and raise the level of society of mankind. R. Why I keep worrying about the Laws of Nature: I don t like them very much all these exploding stars and storms and floods. I would like to think that the subtle and spiritual levels are proof against all that. H.H. In the 11th chapter of Bhagavad Gita there is the episode described where Krishna shows Arjuna his Great Self: In this Great Self all sorts of things are going on one devouring another, killing and explosion, and Realised Man preaching, and all sorts of activity which one can think of in the world were being performed in the Great Self of Lord Krishna. Arjuna said: I am frightened to see all this, why is it so? Lord 397

12 A Record of Audiences & Correspondence with All Rights Reserved. Krishna said that you think you are going to kill these great warriors facing you as enemies and you are going to be the cause of victory over all these enemies. But you can see that all these things happening here in my body are happening automatically, in the sense that this body of mine, is the symbol of Time. In time all these things are happening. You are only a stooge, an instrument! In fact, you do nothing. In fact, everything is being done by the Absolute Himself. Arjuna nodded in appreciation, but yet he said: All that you (Krishna) have said is true, but I still prefer your peaceful incarnation to come in front of me again. Please take this frightening scene away. [see Appendix below] H.H. continues: A lion can be seen in different moods. Sometimes he roars to frighten animals or attacks fiercely. Also he can be seen loving his offspring. The offspring can experience both the loving and the fierce moods. But the cub is never frightened because he is the son of the lion. R. Laughs and says we are back to the lion again! Appendix Extracts from 11th Chapter of the Gita, tr. Sri Purohit Swami The Lord Shri Krishna... showed to Arjuna the supreme form of the Great God. There were countless eyes and mouths, and mystic forms innumerable, with shining ornaments and flaming celestial weapons. In that vision Arjuna saw the universe, with the manifold shapes, all embraced in One, its supreme Lord. Thereupon, dumb with awe, his hair on end, his head bowed, his hands clasped in salutation, he addressed the Lord: Seeing thy stupendous form with its myriad faces, its innumerable eyes and limbs and terrible jaws, I myself and all the worlds are overwhelmed with awe. I long to see thee as thou wast before, with the crown, the sceptre, and the discus in thy hands... Thereupon the Lord Krishna replied: Be not afraid, or bewildered, by the terrible vision. Put away thy fear and, with joyful mind, see Me once again in my usual form. Arjuna said, Seeing thee in thy gentle human form, my Lord, I am myself again, and calm once more. Lord Shri Krishna replied:... Not by study of the scriptures, or by austerities, not by gifts or sacrifices, is it possible to see me as thou hast done. Only by tireless devotion can I be seen and known: only thus can a man become One with me, Arjuna. He whose every action is done for my sake, to whom I am the final goal, who loves me only but hates no one only he can realise me. Thus in the Holy Book, the Bhagavad Gita... stands the Eleventh chapter, entitled: The Cosmic Vision. 398