The Axe Files - Ep. 219: Mayor Marty Walsh

Transcription

1 The Axe Files - Ep. 219: Mayor Marty Walsh Released February 19, 2018 [00:00:06] And now from the University of Chicago Institute of Politics and CNN. The Axe Files with your host David Axelrod. Axelrod: [00:00:16] They say authenticity is the coin of the realm in politics there's hardly a more authentic politician in America than Mayor Marty Walsh of Boston. The son of immigrants came up a hard way battled a lot of things in his life became a leader of the labor movement and then mayor of his city and one of the leading mayors in America. He came to the Institute of Politics this week and we talked about his life his city and the president. Axelrod: [00:00:46] Mayor Walsh great to be with you. There's plenty to talk about relative to what's going on in Boston around the country right now. But I wanted to talk a little bit about your story which is which is kind of an extraordinary story starting with the fact that you're a first generation American. Walsh: [00:01:09] Son of immigrants. My mother and father came over from Ireland and my father came over and 56 my mother came out in 59. Axelrod: [00:01:16] And they were from roughly the same area. Walsh: [00:01:18] From Galway kind of Myrow my mother was from a place called Rossbach and my father's place called Cairn. So they met out here in Boston at the intercolonial dance hall which is a big popular dance hall back in the day in Boston. And it was it was nice so full full roots all from Ireland. Axelrod: [00:01:35] And what you have is also grew up in the full immigrant experience your community was heavily Irish. How does that shape how you look at all the current debate about immigrants. Walsh: [00:01:53] It puts puts an understanding on it for me from the immigrant standpoint you know the neighborhood I grew up in ways Irish Italian Polish Lithuanian and a lot of folks and then it became Vietnamese and Cape Verdian to some degree in Latino and other areas so our neighborhood has always been where I live and where I grew up has always been immigrants there. But when I hear people talk about you know illegal immigrants it bothers me because you know the term I never use that word. I always talk about undocumented immigrants and when they talk about the struggles the immigrant community has today those the same struggles they had in the 50s and 60s and going back to the early 19th century nineteen hundreds. You know it hasn't changed much. Axelrod: [00:02:33] Like the struggles you're speaking. Walsh: [00:02:36] You know I know you know I have family members that couldn't go back home to their parents funeral because they'd be detained at the border. There wasn't proper immigration reform in the country. This was in the 70s and 80s and then and then the United States Congress and Senate dealt with it. They put together some amnesty and did some immigration reform. And I think what was happening today in putting putting a bad light on Ep. 219 Mayor Marty Walsh 1

2 immigrants is wrong. I mean trying to broadbrush immigrants as criminals that's just not true. You go to any city in America you talk to any mayor you talk to anybody. Immigrants are part of the community part of the fabric that in a lot of cases do the jobs that people won't do. They keep the economy moving forward. Axelrod: [00:03:14] And you know the argument that you hear from opponents from people who take this very strident view on immigration is that these immigrants are taking jobs that. Walsh: [00:03:26] Unless it deals with them unless they know an immigrant that might be losing losing their status in the country. Wait a second he's a good guy. And it's kind of I've heard that story as while we have a restaurant owner in Boston that was a big big big Trump supporter. And you know when the immigrant issues came down from the White House the executive orders his response was Well my guy is a good guy. You know my guy got caught up in this thing. And I think it's unfair. I mean I think it's unfair. I think it's a lot of ways as bait and switch. What we should be dealing with as a country we're not dealing with because every time it seems like this White House goes into protective mode they talk about immigration when in fact that you know there's a way to deal with immigration to pass comprehensive immigration reform. Building a wall in Mexico and immigration are two very different issues. The immigrant issue by the way isn't just about isn't just about undocumented immigrants we have DACA we have we have temporary protected status. We have immigrants from Haiti and Nicaragua that are here that are here for protection. And I think that you know we're looking through the immigrant lenses through one lens and the immigrant lens is very complicated. And you look back in history whether it's under the Reagan administration or the Bush administration when we had the Cubans coming into America when we had people from the from South America coming into America you know over the border through both those presidencies that were that were accepted again I think the is a lot bigger than that. I think that to solve it we need immigration reform. The Senate I guess tried to attempt doing it the other day but they clearly didn't do it. So they're not really dealing with the issue properly. Axelrod: [00:04:56] What did you learn from watching your family and about sort of the immigrant the immigrant ethic. Walsh: [00:05:05] My father became a laborer in the trades. The laborer is the construction that cleans cleans the job site cleans the toilets does all that stuff. My father was worked hard every day of his life. He went to church a lot of days as an immigrant raised two boys. You know certainly worked worked very hard every day. Axelrod: [00:05:26] Did stuff in the community as well and. Walsh: [00:05:28] Involved with the church involved with the neighborhood. My mother as well, my mother worked as a housekeeper when she first came to the country. She was a nanny and then when she had the two of us my brother and myself she stayed home. And then my brother got to about 8th grade she went back to work and she was a housekeeper and taking care of older people so that that work ethic transpired transcended over to us I think in a lot of ways you know. Axelrod: [00:05:51] And that is that is the immigrant work ethic that has come to this country to try and build a better life for themselves. Ep. 219 Mayor Marty Walsh 2

3 Walsh: [00:05:59] Not only that you keep the cultures and traditions going and then as I got older I realized that every nationality did that. And then as an elected official as a state representative first and now as mayor. The importance of that you know so as mayor now I go to celebrations all the time of cultural celebrations I was at one this weekend Vietnamese New Year where you have again all immigrants in a room celebrating their traditions and cultures but also adding to our economy adding to our America making it so great. And that's what really what makes America great again. It's keeping that tradition. Axelrod: [00:06:29] You know it's interesting though and Boston has had its own challenges and we'll speak speak about that in a minute. But why do people find that so threatening do you think. Walsh: [00:06:41] I don't think it's across the country. I think it's in certain areas I think in urban America when I go to urban cities I think it's less frightening. I mean I'm in Chicago now for a couple of days and I watch what's going on. I see a lot of different nationalities and cultures walking around everyone's kind of working together. I was in New York a couple of weeks ago. I went to see Hamilton the play but while I was having dinner Laurie and myself looking around seeing different cultures and traditions there as well and I think that I think in a lot of ways it's not understanding what that culture is in some cases forgetting. I mean generations forget that you know most of us in America just want a two or three generations away from being immigrants ourselves and I think they kind of forgot that. And I think that you know I look at Boston as a city that is doing incredible, meaning we've approved 20 billion dollars worth of development in the last four years. We've built more housing than almost any other in the history of our city. We have our schools are strong we have more work to do in our schools which you can talk about. But a lot of great things are happening and we have 20 percent of our residents are foreign born. Forty percent are first generation. So if immigrants were that bad for our economy and so bad for our culture Boston wouldn't be in the renaissance. Axelrod: [00:07:45] One of the paradoxes of this whole immigration discussion is that the strongest resistance to immigration is in the communities where there are the fewest immigrants. Walsh: [00:07:54] And I think it's sad that a lot of it too is a lot of it is just people's making decisions and listening to other folks talking and there's a lot of a lot of hate going around right now and I think that's a bad message for us as Americans to be sitting around the country. I think have been divided country for a long time now. But I think it's even more divided as we as we continue to move into the future. Axelrod: [00:08:17] When when you were a kid you had an extraordinary challenge of your of your own when you were 7 years old. Walsh: [00:08:25] Yeah I had Burkett's lymphoma. Childhood cancer was treated in 1974 treated the Jimmy Fund the Dana Farber and Children's Hospital and at the time that the treatment was exploratory I had radiation chemotherapy and a whole Axelrod: [00:08:39] Your folks were told that you you had just a couple of months to live. Ep. 219 Mayor Marty Walsh 3

4 Walsh: [00:08:42] Couple of months and they said there's two options: One is to go for this treatment and try this experimental treatment or two, take me back to see my grandparents and stuff back in Ireland my mother and father chose the first the first route of action to try the medicine. And you know thank God they did. Axelrod: [00:08:58] Yeah but it was a it was. You spent Walsh: [00:09:01] Four years. Yes in the hospital large amounts of time I had surgery. They opened me up exploratory surgery and then I had all the things you have for that treatment. And at the time I want to say it is 30 percent survival rate for that type of cancer. Today it's 90 percent. And you know obviously Axelrod: [00:09:17] Did you know then did you realize Walsh: [00:09:18] I didn't I was 7. So I didn't really know what was going on. You know I know I was in the hospital a lot I could pretty much do the job of the doctors. I mean I know too much about bone marrows and spinal taps and things like that knives and things like that but you know I think at 7:00 you don't really realize it. I think they kind of kept it from me a little bit. We had a lot of visitors and I remember one Thanksgiving going home for the day. The house is full of people. And then coming back to hospital that night. But you know I'm fortunate I'm blessed. I mean I think you know my mother would say it's the medicine and the prayers and miracles and she'll give a lot of a lot of credit to my faith and faith that they've pulled me through that and I don't disagree with her. Axelrod: [00:09:56] How did that shape you? Walsh: [00:09:59] I think at the time it didn't actually shape me but as like yeah yeah yeah it definitely shaped me as a fighter and in overcoming obstacles. I think that you can realize that you know you have an opportunity here for me I guess you can argue it's my first second chance I got in life that I had. You know I don't realize it till later in life. But you know it could have gotten very different and you know you know obviously I could have passed from it and I wouldn't have had the opportunities that I have today and hopefully during my time as elected official changed the course of what we have I mean when I was a rep in 1997 I voted against the death penalty was a tie vote. We defeated it kept it off the ballot and in 2004 I supported gay marriage in Massachusetts and I was proud of that and I think that you know you look back on some of the things that are different different turning points in guys didn't happen what happens in the future. Axelrod: [00:10:48] Well since you brought it up I was going to bring this up later. Those those two votes probably were not terribly popular. Walsh: [00:10:58] No the first the death penalty was a bad one because at the time young boy had been killed right before that and it was high profile and the governor was a Republican at the time he was for the death penalty the Senate was for it as well in the House of Representatives. We had a vote in enactment of the bill and it was to support the death penalty went over to the Senate. And so at that moment I thought to myself I voted against that policy after a lot of debate and my head, was my first real vote as a legislator. I was in office literally two and a half months when this happened. But I said OK passed but the heat was off Ep. 219 Mayor Marty Walsh 4

5 because it's going to come back and pass here. You know I did everything I could to defeat it when it came back to the house after the Senate. One of the members switched his vote from a yes to a no. And it was a tie which defeated the bill. And at that time it was a tough tough because people were angry. I mean they kept talking about this little boy Jeffrey Curley who had passed since and his dad has switched position on the death penalty. But it was a tough situation very savage murder of this little boy. And you know it was tough. It was. Axelrod: [00:12:01] You put out more than your share of police officers in your in your district. Walsh: [00:12:05] Yeah there was a lot of it was just not just the police. It was almost like the in some ways it's a lot like the same folks that are angry about immigration. They wanted the death penalty vote and it was it was a tough vote in a lot of cases a lot of reps and a lot of reps got got threatened the speaker of the house at that police security and the gentleman who switched his vote had to get security as well. So it was a tough vote. Axelrod: [00:12:27] How did your experience having gone through cancer as a child. How did that impact on your thinking about those kinds of votes. Walsh: [00:12:35] It didn't really have a lot but what would happen was for me it was kind of it was my first real challenge as a legislator and realizing when you're running for office and first time running you know you can support whatever you want to say and you're going to do this and do this and do that. And now front and center is probably one of the biggest votes I'll ever take as a legislator and really not understanding it during the campaign for mayor saying I would probably support a bill that said that that would bring the death penalty for the loss of an officer police officer or some type of official. But now you really have to sit down and think about it I talked to hundreds of people. I literally switched my mind every day. I'd get a compelling story why we should have the death penalty and say OK this is I'm leaning towards this and then I've get a story the next day about how it doesn't work and it doesn't work. I change my mind again and it really made me take a good look inside reflected myself so subconsciously you know dealing with cancer and maybe addiction made me have a clearer brain a clearer mind than how to come up with the issue. But it was it was. After that it was easier to make difficult decisions. Axelrod: [00:13:36] Yeah I guess one of my questions would be if you face the things that you've faced and I want to talk about addiction in a second you face the things you've faced you've probably faced worse things than having to cast a tough vote in the legislature or make a hard decision Walsh: [00:13:53] When you're battling when you're battling alcoholism or depression. And there's moments in your life that you just you just have no place to turn and you kind of shelter into this world that you don't think anyone cares about you and you don't know what to do and you can't get out of it and you keep making the same wrong decisions over and over and over again. And I think once you once you deal with the issue of addiction anyone listening tonight if you're struggling with addiction you know go for help. Ask for help. Because it does get better and you realize that you know is probably the biggest decision that you can make in your life. Getting into recovery and it will put your life on a path that second to none and be able to deal with a day at a time. And that's one thing that's helped me in my life and my career as a person dealing with it's a day at a time. I mean doing about tomorrow. Yesterday is gone. I only focus Ep. 219 Mayor Marty Walsh 5

6 on today and I think that those challenges that helped me through the man's race running for mayor in 2013 that helped me through some of these big decisions you had to make. It helps you it's true. Seeing that story by you in the newspaper it helps us through complication of your in your private life. So living your life that way that strengthens you on top of the cancer situation. Same as kids or 7 so I don't remember the treatment but you can't wake up one day and be diagnosed for cancer and the next day it's gone. So there's a process of treatment that you have to go through. And again it's a day that time process and you hope at the end the day at the end of that that treatment of that time that your life is back on track in the struggle you had before that might not seem as bad Axelrod: [00:15:21] Because that seems to me just my observation. After a few years in politics is that so often politicians are looking down the road down to the next election down to the next office and it makes making hard decisions really really tough because you're trying to calculate well how is this going to affect me. Next election or or down the road. And that's one of the reasons why it's hard to get things done. Walsh: [00:15:51] I did that I got elected 97 in 98 and it was a story in the paper about who's going Axelrod: [00:15:57] To go to the legislature Walsh: [00:15:59] The next legislator starting in You know I was in the paper I might run for city council and then there's another story I might run for Congress and I might run for Senate and I might run for this. I might run for that. And a friend of mine this guy Danny Danny Ryan an older guy said to me I know you want to be somewhere else. But why don't you be the best rep you can be. And when he said that to me the light went off and I realized that in order for me to get to my next stop whatever that might be down the road. You know what was going to be just do the best job I can possibly do that. I mean I was a state representative in the legislature for 16 years. I just did that job and I did the best of my ability and no opportunity presented itself that I was excited about until the mayor of Boston when he when the mayor announced he wasn't running and I was ready to go for that seat. And if I hadn't listened to this advice of this man who just the political guy from the neighborhood that just said it was common sense. Easy line throwaway line he gave me I realize while he's absolutely right. And for 16 years I just did my job and focus on the issues that you care about and you have very difficult votes in that time I had no votes on taxes and other things that we had to deal with. But it gets when you realize that you know I didn't vote for taxes for the sake of raising taxes. I voted for taxes because we had a deficit in the budget and we won of the tax votes I did was for infrastructure money. So every time I took a vote on raising taxes I did three times. It was it was it was to offset a hole that was happening. And I think that that you'll listen to advice to along the way and I think it's important as an elected official you can't never stop listening to somebody always have to listen because if you think you know it all and I've seen it too much. It's all over Washington today where people know it all if they know what you just did. And that's part of the problem with them getting to an understanding in Washington because everyone thinks they know it all and they really don't love them. A lot of people listen to their constituents and you really have those constituents who might vote against constituency wants once in a while it's ok it's ok if you have if you have a good rationale for doing it. Ep. 219 Mayor Marty Walsh 6

7 Axelrod: [00:17:59] You you. Politics was not too far away from you when you were a kid either you or you had your relatives were deeply involved in the labor movement politics. You know Boston is a little like Chicago so you know yeah politics is you know every kid grows up and they know two things their ward and they know their parish. Walsh: [00:18:26] My ward's 39 my parish is St. Margaret's Axelrod: [00:18:28] Yeah. There you go. So do you. Did you know early on. Yeah there's something I might wanna do. Walsh: [00:18:34] Well yeah actually did I had in my blood. You know my father I think one of the first tries I went to my father taught me to think it was a mayoral mayoral race and in Boston it was Kevin White was a city mayor and Joe Timilty was running against him and now I forget something happened with Kevin White in the labor movement. They were upset with him so we were Timility and I remember about seven or eight holding a sign at a rally and then my uncle Pat ran for the business manager's job for the laborers union. His name was on a sticker and he was you know he was the guy who was my godfather and I loved him. And seeing his name on a sticker, I was that kind of sparked it for me. And then as time went on I got involved in campaigns all over the place. I was always involved the campaign the candidates I went with usually last but I believed in them which is fine because you learn more in a lot and you do want a victory. And when the time came for me to run for state representative I knew that I wanted it. I had been sober now two years. Axelrod: [00:19:33] Well let me ask you about that because I know you went to you went to college you dropped out of college. You worked as a laborer. You got involved. You took a job with the union and then you used sunk into a big black hole. Walsh: [00:19:47] I took a job with I was a laborer in the field and then went to work in the office and and during that time always will always want to go back to college. I did about a year and a half in college and never quite could get back in there and what was happening was I was I was out there having a good time party at night and going to going to going to work on the day and being involved in the community and coaching and all that stuff trying to keep that front up and just front up and the drinking went from being fun to churning and I was finding myself drinking almost every night with different groups of people and my life is starting to spiral out of control. This particular moment and you know I start not everyone around me sorry per se to me did anybody see it and say Hey people I work with people I work with brought it brought to my attention. You know a couple of people I work with throw an AA book on my desk every now and then and see the book there and so I just knew. Axelrod: [00:20:40] And what did you think when you saw the book. Walsh: [00:20:42] I laughed it off but I knew inside as time went on it there was more and more serious things happening to me and one more problems that we are encountering. And again as I said earlier it's an inside game and really outside I was smiling and I was involved and active in the community and active in different campaigns. But inside I was hurting and I knew that my life was was spiraling out of control and I end up going into detox just to get the pressure off of me not to stop drinking but to get the pressure off me to try and tell the world around me I'm in detox I'm going to be good. And the first that I was there. People came in they were talking Ep. 219 Mayor Marty Walsh 7

8 about their experiences to alcoholism in recovery. And I got hope. I was there for a week. I got out of there I started to go to meetings of senior counsel at the time because I was you know in my life better and my life got really better. You know I wasn't blacking out I wasn't doing things I wasn't hurting people. Axelrod: [00:21:40] You were sort of chance involved in a shooting. Walsh: [00:21:44] Yeah that was way back in the day. Wrong place wrong time was 22 years old it shouldn't have been where I was as late night out drinking at night and much of us there and fight happened between different group of people we happened to be at the wrong place wrong time. But even that wasn't an eye opener at 3:00 o'clock in the morning on the street. There's no reason there's nothing good happens at 3 o'clock in the morning. But I got into recovery. And you know my life just start to fall in place for me and things got clear when I say clear I mean my decisions were better. I was able to be a better coach. I was able to be a better son as able, to be a better employee. I was able to be be responsible and showing up and things are really good for me. Axelrod: [00:22:19] Let me just take a short break. Let's pick this up on the other side. A lot it was interesting to me that you said you went because you wanted to basically relieve the pressure of people telling you they knew that that often happens. It doesn't really work unless you're. Unless you're willing to open yourself up to the possibility of getting better. Walsh: [00:22:42] Now what I what I what happened for me and this is that there's a saying people say in recovery the grace of God into my life and there was a moment of clarity in that moment of clarity was the exact right time for me and I'm sure there were other people that were sitting next to me in front of me behind me in that same detox that probably died that didn't get the same message I did that night. And you know it turned out my life turned around because of that. Axelrod: [00:23:06] You still do still go to meetings. Walsh: [00:23:09] Not as many as I'd like to but I still go you have to go because it keeps me grounded and it keeps me focused on what's important. Axelrod: [00:23:17] And you also famously have shared your cell phone number with people who are dealing with addiction dealing with alcoholism. It's been written that chagrined your aides some time because you have to leave a meeting to take a call from someone who needs help. Walsh: [00:23:36] Everyone wants me to change my number. And you know a lot of people have the number. But it's important not to miss the call whatever call that might be. So he might be looking for help or text. You know something from the past or even when I go to me I give my number to somebody at the meeting I give my cellphone. And you know we're after I got elected mayor of Boston and I gave them a person of the meeting. He called me up a couple days later and just talk to me. Didn't realize and then like five days later he goes Oh my God. I had no idea what my role was, my job was but it's too important. I just don't want to miss that call. I mean a lot of people have the number Ep. 219 Mayor Marty Walsh 8

9 Axelrod: [00:24:11] And you're not only someone on the other end of the phone for individuals who need help. You've run across. But you're also the mayor and you're dealing with issues of drugs and addiction on a policy level. How have those become more complicated these days because of the opioid situation Walsh: [00:24:33] Because people think I have the answers to it and it's not that simple. I mean as a mayor you know we created the Office of Recovery Services in Boston and were able to do some good things in the city of Boston. But the opiate crisis we have is a nationwide killer. And you know it's difficult. I don't have all the answers. And I think that nobody has the answers. I mean it's a complicated situation. I'm reading the book Dreamland right now. That is incredible. Incredible insight into the whole world of addiction from the drugs coming from another country from Mexico to the pain killers produced here in the States Air America to addiction in the streets and how law enforcement deals with it. I mean it's not a simple solution. And I think that you know when I'm talking to a parent or talking to somebody in recovery that's in the grips of addiction. I mean I know how to talk to that individual person and I think that you know it's very it's very complicated. It's a very complicated issue. You know the Federal government, the Obama administration was really the first administration to start to deal with this issue during the presidential campaign. One positive light during that whole campaign two years ago three years ago was that almost every candidate Republican Democrat uniformly across the board talked about addiction openly as far as an issue to tackle. They know what's happening. Not not a lot I the federal government needs to have more of a stake in this. And this goes back years. I don't think you can't tell them we can't tell us how to do it but they need to create more funding opportunities and really figure out how to how to how to deal with the issue. And I think also clamping down on the border is the one place a lot of drugs coming into the country. But that's one step on the other side we have a lot of legal drugs in our country. You know we have to clamp down on and I still don't think that anyone. I don't think that the pharmaceutical industry has learned their lesson. I just don't think they have and I think my concern now is they're trying to come up with drugs to block the craving. So what they're doing is creating another industry to combat addiction. It can't just be a drug, you take a drug to stop addiction. There has to be more to it. Axelrod: [00:26:40] You know you talked before about some of the tough votes that you cast in the legislature and you mention the vote for gay marriage that was a huge Massachusetts was so ahead of the country on that crowd of that vote. Yeah but I'm sure that too is a controversial vote. You know back in St. Margaret Walsh: [00:27:05] It was controversial. I mean I mean a lot of people weren't sure exactly what happened was the Massachusetts Supreme Court created that marriage equality is the law of Massachusetts. And there was a move to define a marriage between a man and a woman and that's really what the vote was. It was a constitutional convention. We had two successive conventions so it got really personal and it got you know the eyes of the world was on Massachusetts really. And you know we were out explaining I was out talking to my constituents at the time whether it was you know to different parishes or senior citizens are talking and some people will give me a lot of grief for the vote. But I think there was at that point you know a lot of family members had somebody who was gay. And my response was to them at the time was don't you want everything for all of your kids so if you have a son or daughter and one's gay one's not don't you want the same for each one, you should love them the same. And that's kind of that's that's where that vote went. You know Massachusetts I'm proud of the vote. The only Ep. 219 Mayor Marty Walsh 9

10 thing I'm I'm not happy about. I think we should have gotten through that through the legislature as far as gay marriage legalization not through the courts. And I think we should have identified that as as a legislative body before that. But the courts came down made the ruling and then other states fall in line with us and then the U.S. Supreme Court made the law of the land and you know you don't hear pushback. There's not. There's not. Axelrod: [00:28:25] It is amazing isn't it. Walsh: [00:28:26] There's not a big outcry around the world. And I said to my colleagues at the time back in 2004 that vote we're going to vote against it I said you know be careful what you're voting here. You know this is history. And somewhere down the road you don't want your grandchildren to be asking you where were you on on this side of history and you're saying I was on the wrong side of history and that convinced a lot of people to vote for marriage equality in Massachusetts. Axelrod: [00:28:47] You spent as we mentioned earlier a lot of your life in and around the labor movement. You rose up in the same union that your family was active in. And I want to ask you about sort of the state of labor in the state of unionism in this country because we've seen a steady decline. Walsh: [00:29:11] Well I think that you know at least for me speaking I think when you look at the decline of the middle class and the decline the labor movement they run parallel to each other and I think that there's been a big drop there. I think the fact that Labor has as lost lost it's it's not the right word. I won't say clout but lots of appeal. I think it's sad in some ways. Late Labor has put a lot of people through college Labor has put paid for a lot of mortgages. Labor has done incredible amounts for our country as a society. I think a couple things. Number one is Axelrod: [00:29:45] Made it possible for you to get the cancer treatment that you get. Walsh: [00:29:48] Absolutely we had health care back at the time. I'm the mayor of Boston today because the men and women of the building trades and other unions went out there and held signs and got dirty for me meaning that they were out there campaigning for me and doing my thing and they were proud of that fact and I think I showed that. I'll come back to that point in a second. I think I've shown very clearly that it's OK to be a Labor person as a mayor of a major city and see incredible economic gain in a city. Boston is in that position where I think a lot of business people in the beginning might have been concerned about my myself being the mayor of Boston and others saying oh my god this guys have done incredible things in labor. We can do it hand in hand. But I think Axelrod: [00:30:26] You're always under scrutiny. People who want to say you're tipping the scale of your allies in labor. Walsh: [00:30:33] And that's not the case. And I think that I think a couple of things the move and I think the labor movement in some cases not all but in some we've lost have lost our our desire on organizing. I think that in some cases it's all and nothing and you can't do that. Labor I think that Labor has to look at what business has done and adapted and changed to the times. I think some of the labor movement has to do that. I think the fact that we are I think we're out there in some big fights but again you know get elected officials help get them elected and then Ep. 219 Mayor Marty Walsh 10

11 elected officials forget the fact that labor helped them I think that reminder has to be put there. I think more labor union members need to run for office. I think that you know we're part of a community. I mean I'm a I was the president of laborers local 223 in Boston I ran for mayor of Boston. I was the head of the building trades in Boston. I ran for boss and I got one I stepped down from those two posts after I won. But on the other side you know I was on the board of a charter school as well. I was a founding board member of a charter school so I think there's an opportunity for for Labor to rethink what their role in society is and I think that that's where Labor has to go. I'm concerned about the decline in numbers and I'm concerned about that that's happening every single day. And I think that you know I don't see a rosy future right now in the labor movement I think we have to do some different things to bring us back Axelrod: [00:31:55] Especially, and you've experienced this in Boston, we live in this gig economy where people don't necessarily work in conventional settings anymore. [00:32:03] It's not 9 to 5 anymore. I mean the jobs that used to be 9 to 5. You know it's only 9 to 5 world anymore. It's a 24/7 world. And I think that if Labor wants to be relevant they have they have to continue to push in and change with the times and the not all industries but some industry. I think that you know you see it in different areas I've seen it in my time. You know the United States Supreme Court has has a vote coming Axelrod: [00:32:27] Yes. Going to raise that. Walsh: [00:32:28] That's that's detrimental Axelrod: [00:32:29] To to determine whether public employee unions can demand from employees Union fees for contracts that they negotiate. What happens if it seems pretty likely that the court is going against that Walsh: [00:32:52] It's going to happen and I think that there's the unions are going to go back to organizing and unions are going to start to organize their members and in organizing their members it's like a campaign explaining to individuals why it's important to be a part of a bigger body of people. And I think that that's what they have to do because Axelrod: [00:33:08] It's easy it's easy not to pay dues if you get the benefits. Walsh: [00:33:12] Yeah and that's going to be it's going to be a whole the whole situation much exactly what the next step is I know we're preparing we're preparing for it. Last time or the labor movement was but I know they're still they filed a brief I signed on a brief the other day from Massachusetts so we'll see what happens. But I think it's unfortunate. I mean I look at when you look at right to work states and some of the unemployment numbers that are there and so high they aren't paying paying workers literally half less than half of what other workers make across America. That's not how you raise a family. You can't raise a family on declining revenue. And meanwhile companies are making record profits. I mean again I'm not looking to take away from companies and this sounds like the typical Democratic response but you know both can exist together. Axelrod: [00:33:53] Well let me ask you that in that context. You're in a town with amazing technological know how. I mean Boston is a technological hub innovation hub of the entire world Ep. 219 Mayor Marty Walsh 11

12 and automation is proceeding at this tremendous pace in fact we're losing many more jobs to robots and computers than to Mexico and China and other countries. What is the answer to that. From the standpoint of a Labor person Walsh: [00:34:27] I think it's education. It goes back to educating people in the fields of the future I think that you know colleges colleges do a pretty good job of that is staying ahead of the game and trying to make sure the young people that they're educating prepare for the workforce of the day of that day. And I think that we have to constantly have a wall. And I think that for a mayor of Boston you know we're starting to look at stem a lot more than we had in the past. We're gonna open the first science and take science technology engineering and math are opening the first new STEM High High School in Boston. That was our first new High School built in 30 years so we're looking at how do we pair our young people for the jobs the future. And you know this is not the first time that an evolution like this happened in our country. We've gone through different periods in cycles in a country where where technology's come in and taken workers off the off the line of the manufacturing line to go back to Labor. I don't think that you know Labor doesn't represent every person either. I mean it's not like not everybody needs a union. Not everyone wants to unions their choice and I think that. But I think that the answer is that's going to be to education. We have to continue to evolve and as we evolve as a country that has always been an industry coming up under the under the Clinton administration you had that you know you had the kind of the dot com era and now under the Obama administration that's continued for we have this incredible technology that's going on in life sciences it's happening in the last 10 years in America or in Boston and you know it is in the tech industry and how do you how do you stay relevant in that it comes back to education. Axelrod: [00:35:56] You just returning to your story. So you made this decision room for mayor. I read somewhere that that this was not a sudden inspiration of yours that you'd said as a kid. Yeah I'm going to be mayor of of Boston someday why that job why did Mayor appeal to you mentioned that people talked about running for Congress and running for other jobs Walsh: [00:36:19] I think growing up in Boston or growing up in a political political I guess you could say any city in America that's that's pretty political. That's that's the job. I mean people aspire to that job and I think that you know you know some people aspire to be president I'd say it's America. And at that point I said I aspire to be mayor of Boston. I just thought it was a great job and as I got older I understood what the job did more. I continue to think it's a great job you can help. You know so many people who do so much for your city. Now being mayor and this environment is even more important I think because you're in competition with other cities around America. You're in competition with other cities around the world to keep your city relevant and to keep you city competitive and it's almost like sports you have to continue to keep your city in the spotlight so that you continue to make gains in your city because it's a competitive place. I mean when when a company whether it's Amazon or G.E. or what have you what it doesn't matter when they start talking about moving locations you want to make sure that your city is on that list so that you can continue to grow your city and continue to be relevant in the world. Axelrod: [00:37:28] Mayor Daley was a client of mine in Chicago and people used to say when he was very popular here maybe he could run for governor or maybe he could run for the. Maybe he would be in the cabinet of a Democratic president and he was incredulous. He would say well why would I do that. I've got the best job in the world. The reason he said it was Ep. 219 Mayor Marty Walsh 12

13 because I can see what every day I see the problems and I see the impact of what we do. And there's no other job like that. Walsh: [00:37:56] There really isn't. I mean when you're the mayor you're on the ground floor you can you have say whatever happens in the sea in the course of a day. I mean your job is to to keep the city moving forward but you're also involved in every aspect of life and being a mayor of Boston or Chicago. You know a lot of ways you know the centerpoint of the state where New York City or New Orleans wherever it might be. You know when you know when you think about when people talk about what's going on in Massachusetts it's often what's happening in Boston. They equate Boston with Massachusetts. So I think that that's partly what Mayor Daley was coming from. And also it's also a tough jump to run for mayor for whatever reason to run from mayor to governor. I think especially from a big city. Axelrod: [00:38:38] How about for President of a bunch of your colleagues are looking at that. Walsh: [00:38:42] I think that could happen. I really do and I think that can happen for a number of reasons. I think in the last you know dozen years or so mayors have really kind of risen up to be the people that are doers. And I think that I had this conversation a little bit we're talking about you know when people elect a president it's generally somebody from the United States Senate or somebody from a governor and they talk about the governor has strengths because they have the they have the experience to be an executive. And I think that mayors now have that same experience a challenge particularly today with the issues of immigration is front and center. Health care is front and center. Job training is front and center. all the issues that that is dealt on a national level. We deal with itaevery single day in cities across America. So I would not be surprised to see a serious mayoral candidate in the next presidential election in the next couple elections to see him mayor elected president Axelrod: [00:39:31] Would you. And would you be supportive of that are you looking for a mayor to support. Walsh: [00:39:34] I mean right now I'm waiting to see what happens. But there's has been playing games thrown around Axelrod: [00:39:38] A lot of people from your own state who are thinking About this Walsh: [00:39:42] You know Mitch Landrieu whose name has been floated out there from New Orleans. Eric Garcetti from L.A. has been floated out Axelrod: [00:39:49] There maybe plausible candidates in your mind? Walsh: [00:39:51] They'd be great candidates I think they're strong. They run great cities and they're issues now are issues or environmental justice we're talking about the Paris climate accord Eric Garcetti lead that. We all signed on. Mitch Landrieu is the head of the Conference of Mayors and so I think that there's a lot of there's a lot of good people that could be good candidates. Axelrod: [00:40:12] Do you think that it might be advantageous not to be from Washington these days. Ep. 219 Mayor Marty Walsh 13

14 Walsh: [00:40:16] I don't know I kind I guess that goes back and forth. It's hard to say. [crosstalk] I don't know. Walsh: [00:40:31] I think I think it's about timing and it's about where the country is at that particular moment I think you look back on the past you know three presidential four presidential elections. Bill Clinton was a governor of a very small state in one. You know George Bush was the son of a former president active and governor as well of a bigger bigger state in one. You know President Obama you know other remember other than people here in Chicago and Illinois people didn't really know who he was. He gave a couple great speeches and then when Boston was in Boston it was where he gave one of the great speeches but people were in the arena when he gave that. No I wasn't there. I was there the next night. But you know so he kind of he went on to win the presidency and then you have this president. And so I think when you look at the last four presidents there's really no design plan on none of them really fall other than than Clinton and Bush being governors. They're very different people in the pathway to the presidency was very different for all of them. So I don't think that being a Washington person. Plus I don't know if there is such a thing as an insider in Washington anymore. It seems like everyone is kind of up in arms over this. Axelrod: [00:41:41] I want to talk to you about that in a minute we're going to take another break and we'll be right back with Mayor Marty Walsh. Axelrod: [00:41:51] I want to talk further about the national scene and some of these issues as they impact on your city. But before I do one thing that interested me was you followed a legend in the mayor's office. Tom Menino was a giant figure in Boston. You had been a state rep you'd been obviously you'd been a major figure in the labor movement. But this was an entirely different thing. What were the personal challenges in taking over an office from a guy had been there for 20 years. And in a town that was used to these larger than life mayors Walsh: [00:42:34] First going in, you know excited that I won the race thinking about how do you follow a 20 year incumbent in very early on realizing that people didn't know any other way of governing except for Mayor Menino's style which they welcomed the new idea because they weren't use new idea. And I think that that made it easier to go in and do do what I wanted to do. I also surround myself with young people. I mean I my chief of staff was 27 years old. Dan Coe was running for Congress. You know he was at the Huffington Post and I knew his dad and I literally met him. I met him once and talked to him and bring Axelrod: [00:43:12] Howard Coe was a great official in the Obama administration in the health and Walsh: [00:43:17] Also in Massachusetts I met him when he's in government in Massachusetts. So I brought him on. I brought on you know a CFO that was thirty something I brought in a communications director at 30 something in me. I presented myself with all young people and we tried new things we tried different ideas. Axelrod: [00:43:34] And what about you though personally. There were there days when you said what the hell am I doing. Ep. 219 Mayor Marty Walsh 14

15 Walsh: [00:43:39] I say as I mentioned this is one of the articles one of the papers in Boston. So the first three months I went home every single night on what did I do to myself. I couldn't talk to anyone. Everyone and campaigned for me. Everyone around me was part of the campaign. Everyone around me is vested so I didn't have anyone that kind of turned to and say what do you do in this particular situation and around the middle of March the first year I realized that I got this and I don't know what something just clicked. And I think it was just I went from being a legislator of people to a mayor of 600 and people. I went from being in the press once in awhile to requests every single day a camera showing up everywhere. I had to make these decisions. People coming in and ask me what position on this and learning that as mayor you know something comes that breaks news. Now I have to have an opinion of it. I can't take time to process it. Axelrod: [00:44:31] I think this is one of the things that when you say mayors could be a plausible presidential candidates I actually think mayor and president are closer in their nature than any other political offices because just like presidents people know their mayors their mayors are ubiquitous presence in their living room. They they know all about you. They know about your life. They know your personality Walsh: [00:45:03] They know you who you are what you stand for. Yeah I know there's no question about it and Axelrod: [00:45:08] Is t a good thing if you're in that job I mean it's Walsh: [00:45:10] I think it prepares you I mean I think that you know my first day in office as mayor there was a big ballot question during the major race on casinos whether or not there are going to be allowed in certain parts of the city of Boston. People voted down. And there's another casino over in Everett now which is controversial today and my corporation counsel at the time came in and said You have to not make the person was they said it's to make a decision if you're surrounding your host community for the casino. At the time I had no idea what they were talking about and I'm thinking why why didn't this come out in the transition. And I believe to make it try make a decision that day in the first day in office something like Oh my God it's like every day I feel like that. And as a legislator you have time to process it. You know you have time to say OK whether it's death penalty or gay marriage or taxes unless you're the deciding vote you get a lot of company. But even then you have time to think about where you land on it as mayor. It's like OK what's your position on this something breaks today. You know immigration. When Trump did the executive on immigration I literally walked to my office. It was three o'clock I saw what he had done. I'm looking at it and I got I got somewhat disgusted by his approach. I called a press conference for 3:30 at 3:30 I have every person standing behind me in the Eagle Room which is next to the mayor's office. That's an immigrant that works for the administration or first generation we couldn't all fit in the room and I was condemning Trump's stand on immigration. You can do that as mayor. You can do that as mayor. But in some areas got concerned about Trump's announcement because he did they didn't know where their constituencies were so you really have to be close to the people you have to figure out you can't take positions every day against what your constituents want. So I think that as a mayor you are on the ground you are on the ground. So my first three months I would go home every night thinking to myself What did I do. How do I get to this thing a day at a time literally. I was thinking that way in March. I realized this is I got this and still challenging this challenging days and moments and periods. But I think there are a lot of comparisons to the president and the Ep. 219 Mayor Marty Walsh 15