Cantigny First Division Oral Histories II Ohio University Libraries

Transcription

1 Cantigny First Division Oral Histories II Ohio University Libraries Interview with James Sizemore Video at Balmert: My name is Daniel Balmert I m with the Cantigny First Division Oral History Project and I m with Major Jim Sizemore. Sizemore: Yes Balmert: And it is now 10:15 on November 15th [2009]. So Mr. Sizemore when and where were you born? Sizemore: I was born in Gallipolis, Ohio; at the Gallipolis hospital in August 18 th Balmert: Did you grow up in Gallipolis? Sizemore: No, I grew up in Jackson County, Ohio. Um, in a small little town Colton, and my parents moved out into the rural area, outside the town, there I guess. So then Jackson County from until I graduated from high school. Balmert: Where d you go to high school? Sizemore: Um, I went to Jackson High School for a while and also Wellston High School. We lived on the borderline between the two, uh, school districts, so when we moved a little bit I went into the other school district. Balmert: Did you go into, uh, college after high school? Sizemore: I went into the regular army from high school, um, enlisted into the army in March the 29 th of 1989, I went in and I was a 19 Delta Cav scout, from 1989 til 1991 when I was released after the end of Desert Storm. Balmert: When you enlisted what was your experience with basic training? Sizemore: Um, it was kinda like what I thought it would be, but it wasn t as hard as I thought it would be. It was just a lot of, as long as you did what you were told and went where you were supposed to go um, just did all the pushups you were supposed to do, it wasn t too difficult. Yea. Balmert: Where were you sent for your training? 1

2 Sizemore: I went to Fort Bliss, Texas. Uh, for basic training and for my AIT. In, so I was there throughout the summer and Fort Bliss is in El Paso, Texas, so it s pretty hot, I always end up in the desert somehow. Balmert: When you were stationed for your basic training, were you with the men that you would eventually be working with? Sizemore: There were a few guys, when we left basic training there were a few of the guys that I was with, well the basic training was a combined infantry basic, so it was the mixture of all kind of different M.O.S.s and then when I went to my A.I.T. it was all scouts, and there were a few us that ended up in the same unit together, but not everyone. We were dispersed to all the different units in the military. Balmert: Did you have any motivations for going into the military? Sizemore: Uh, primarily once I graduated from high school I wasn t certain what I wanted to do. Um, I didn t really have a desire to go to college at that point, and I wasn t sure what career path I wanted to follow. So, and um, my dad was a Vietnam veteran and just kinda grew up around a military family, both of my grandfathers were in the military, one was army one was navy. And, then with my dad and several of my uncles being in the military it was kinda something I wanted to do just to kinda get out of Jackson County, get away for a while. Kinda figure out where I wanted to go in life, and the army was that option for me. Balmert: Ok, Um, how did your family react when you told them that you were going to join the military? Sizemore: Well, my mom didn t want me to go in, My dad supported me, he went with me to the recruiter and made sure that the recruiters didn t lie to me, and uh, I choose the job that I wanted to do, so he went with me, and helped me go through all that process. And, but, my mom didn t want me to go in because her experience was with my dad being a Vietnam veteran, when I was born my dad was actually in Vietnam at that time. So for her she saw the effect that uh, the army and being in a combat zone had on a person because it altered who my dad was, as a result of going into combat, and then coming back, you know, here s a different person, and so that was my mom s experience so she really resisted me going into the military. Balmert: Were you seeing anyone at the time, dating anyone? Sizemore: No, uh uh. Balmert: So no other real connections? Sizemore: No, I was just out of high school had no connections to anything, other than just to my family, so I had no ties keeping me where I was, so to leave was, basically just putting my stuff in a suitcase and getting on a bus. Balmert: How did your areas of specialization, like, get chosen or did you choose them or were they chosen for you? Sizemore: I was able to choose, when I went in, of course it was volunteer force. It s been that way since 73, 74? So, you get to choose what you want to do, what branch, what your MOS that you would 2

3 like to go into so I went to the recruiters and at that time they had some films some, uh, VHS tapes and they would say what would you like to do? Do you have any kind of desires that you would like to do? And then they would show you a little video about the uh, um, the MOS. Kind of illustrating what they do, this that and the other, to help you make your choice, what you would like to enlist for. Balmert: You changed your specialty, a couple times correct? Sizemore: Yes Balmert: What were all of your different specialties? Sizemore: When I get off of active duty, initially I was a Calvary Scout, and then when I came into the Ohio national guard I had to change my MOS, because the guard unit, that I enlisted in, er, was assigned to didn t have that MOS. So I became a Hawk Missile crew member. I believe 14 Delta was the number, and I was in that position until I wanted to be promoted, and the only E-5 slot that was open was a NBC, Nuclear Biological Chemist, position. So then I went to the 54 Bravo School, became a chemical specialist, and I remained in that position until I went into the Chaplain Corps. And that would ve been in 99 I went into the chaplain candidate program, and then became a, a, and eventually was commissioned as a chaplain. And that s where I ve remained since then. Balmert: Ok. What was your mission like when you first entered as a scout, what were your day to day operations and what was your overall mission? Sizemore: Um, as a scout the primary job is reconnaissance, a lot of the training is, uh, first of all how to find, you would seek out and find the enemy so that you can guide the other units there, the combat arms units to that location. But, also you uh, have to find routes of travel, so you would have to find a route to get there and make sure that the equipment that was going to that location could travel down the roadways and that there weren t any hazards along the way as well. Like, um, like landmines or any barriers that the enemy may have emplaced to kind of uh, funnel you into a certain area. So you would go out and determine these routes of travel and, find the enemy. That would, that s the job of a scout. I was assigned to a training battalion. Um, so I never really got to do my job a lot. I got a lot of training, but never actually got to implement and do my job like I wanted to. Balmert: When were you deployed for operation Desert Storm? Sizemore: I was not. I didn t go across the, into Saudi Arabia, or anything at that time period, I stayed state-side the whole time. Balmert: So you just trained, different scouts who would be going? Sizemore: Right. We uh, um uh, I was assigned to Fort Knox, Kentucky. Which was, at that time was the armor school and um, so the unit that I was assigned to was the support for that. So we would make sure the equipment was available we would go out to the training ranges and be the OP-4 for the other people that were in the training lanes at that time. Balmert: So you were back state-side during this time you probably got to see a good amount of how the military was changing itself. This is a really transitional time at the back end of the cold war. 3

4 Sizemore: Umhm Balmert: Did you notice any significant changes in the way that the military was conducting itself? Sizemore: It, the biggest thing that I saw was the downsizing. When I went in there was a pretty large standing army, um, George H. Bush was president when I first went in, when I enlisted. And I was sitting in a mess hall when the Berlin Wall came down. I remember watching that on TV, um. And, then, Desert Storm happened not too long after that, and then as uh, as those people were coming back to the United States one of the things I remember is they started giving people severance packages to get out of the military, so they wanted to downsize the force. Which is kind of strange today, they were paying people the same amount of money to get out of the army that they are paying people to enlist nowadays. Um, just see the force structure reduce in size by quite a bit was the biggest thing that I saw. At that time, uh, today it s a completely different way of how the army even mobilizes, how they, uh, the force structure is completely different; it s not set up to engage the Soviet threat. All of the training I went through was you know recognition of Soviet aircraft, recognition of Soviet armored vehicles, what were their tactics, what were there strategies, how would they employ their force, and that was all of your training at that time, but now it s not that way, but it s only been recently that, that training piece has changed and altered quite a bit. Until probably, five I would say five years ago, or more that it s really began to move away from that Cold War view of how the force structure would be laid out. And how the things would be implemented to what it is today. Balmert: What was daily life like in the military between hat period of, the end of the Cold War in roughly 1991 or so, um, up unto, um, 2001? Sizemore: At, at that period I wasn t on active duty at that time, I was in the guard. And, I can t speak to, I can t say day to day, but you know, like the guard perspective was, you know in the National Guard it was the one weekend a month, two weeks in the summer. The guard was a strategic reserve, and we would be called up if there was a huge, major combat take place. That was the view until 9/11 took place. And then, since 9/11 the National Guard has been used as a operational reserve, which means we were called up on a more frequent basis. Even for myself, I ve done two deployments. So in the last, my first one was in 2003, so since 2003 I ve been away from home for two and a half years; deployed, uh, in support of operation Iraqi Freedom. So, before the mindset would ve been: only if there was world war three will the guard ever be called up. Now, the mindset is: we re in the rotation pool to deploy and be part of the combat in any region. So, that s a major, change in the implementation of the National Guard. Balmert: Did that change directly after 9/11 or did it take a while for that change to occur? Sizemore: It was directly after 9/11. Um, cause 9/11 occurred, um, I was assigned to an MP battalion at that point, they were called up and were in the airport. I don t know if you remember that time zone or not but the, they were placed in the airports and providing security. Uh, and then those units were, as they were leaving out of that they went and then um, were deployed to backfield, active duty units that had mobilized for OEF, Operation Enduring Freedom, into Afghanistan. But, about the time, so they spent a year at Fort Bragg and different locations. And, then they came home and they were mobilized again to in support in operation of Operation Iraqi Freedom. So, that was, that would ve never occurred prior to 9/11, so that was a big change, and many of those units had been deployed two or three times, since that time period. 4

5 Balmert: When did you become a chaplain? Sizemore: In 99 I went into the chaplain candidate program, and in 2002 I was able to pin on my cross. It was November of 2002 that I became a chaplain. Balmert: And, when were you deployed to Iraq? Sizemore: I was deployed, uh, we were activated in mid-december of 03, and in February of 04 we moved into Kuwait, and then St. Patrick s day of 2004 we moved north into Iraq. Balmert: What was your mission in Iraq? Sizemore: I was assigned as a chaplain for the 216 th engineering battalion. Um, its combat heavy, which is like uh, like a large construction company basically. Everything from Earth moving, to building foundations, masons, electricians, carpenters, electricians. The whole nine yards it s just like a large construction company. Balmert: Now did you primarily serve the needs of the American soldiers or did you also work with the Iraqi people? Sizemore: No, we were primarily on the bases, and um, we really did not get to interact a lot with the Iraqis at all. There was very limited contact with them. We helped, uh, build up the force protection at the bases so, uh, even when we left one base to go to another one we just drove straight to the other base. So there was almost no interaction with the local population at all. Balmert: Ok, when you were going about your day to day life were you mostly involved in one on one interactions with different soldiers or were you in charge of greater operations like, um, setting up different services for the unit? Sizemore: Could you explain that? I don t exactly know what you re asking. Balmert: Are you, were you involved with one on one counseling with soldiers or did you do more organized religious activities? Sizemore: Um, as a chaplain it s both. I would uh, do counseling sessions with the soldiers, um, whatever the issues might be. Some of them were interpersonal, some of them were, um, just you know all the issues of home life that were going on, trying to be separated from your family, you know family life continued. Some people had religious questions, you know is it, here I am deployed and I might be asked to kill another person and you know just, religious moral implications that people start asking those kind of questions, but also I did provide religious services, uh, for the area that I was in. There was me, there were four chaplains that were kind of in the same area together. On, uh, FOB Spiker is where I was at, and so we had a chapel area, and we kept that running. And, there was one chaplain that remained at the base almost the whole time, and he kind of managed the chapel and myself and the other chaplains would go out with the units, because our units were moving all over the area. And, uh, so we would hold religious services there, but we d also go out to the other bases, and uh, provide religious services wherever we might be. I, on Easter of that year I held Easter service on the hood of my Humvee. Just because we were moving, and that was when the Sadr Uprising was occurring. We were moving south, we moved south from Tikrit, down to uh, Najaf in between Karbala and Najaf there was a FOB, FOB 5

6 Duke. And, it was when Sadr and all the uprising was going on and we traveled down there, and I went with them, because we weren t sure if there d be a chaplain there. So, I went with a portion of the unit, and uh, it was Easter as the sun was going down by the time we got to the camp, and I held religious service on, on the hood of my Humvee. So, it it just depends, sometimes I would just have to do it on the fly, out in the middle of the desert in the open, and sometimes we did have a little chapel area that we could use to hold services. Balmert: Did you ever feel safe when you were at the forward operating, operating, bases or was there always a sense of impending danger? Sizemore: Um, it, you re always, there was mortars, everyday there were mortars landing on the FOB. They rarely hit anything, there was a lot of open space, and um, they sent a few rockets in. When, I was actually home on my mid tour leave, and rocket landed just in front of the house that we had, and a piece of that shrapnel hit the wall of my house. And, mortars landed behind our house on different occasions, so you re always apprehensive and anytime there was a noise that was out of the normal you were crouching and waiting for something to explode. But, in a sense you get used to it being that way, so it s not a sense of fear all the time. Balmert: How would you reconcile those fears you have while you re trying to comfort other soldiers? Sizemore: Um, I don t know that you had to reconcile them, they, the people that you were with, they appreciated that you were in the same situation. So, whenever they came to me seeking guidance or for counseling they knew that I was in the same situation, so anything that, you know the, support that I could offer, you know, this has helped me, um, they would take that more and be more willing to receive it because I was in the same situation that they were going through. Balmert: Ok. What denomination did you represent when you were active, or still represent? Sizemore: Well, at that time I was a Baptist, um, but since then since I ve come home I ve actually, I was received into the Orthodox Church and I m an Orthodox Church of America, I m an Orthodox Priest now. I had a change, a big change in my own religious views, in between being there and since I ve returned. Balmert: Did you choose to be inducted as a Baptist; was that your religion going into the service? Sizemore: Yes, well to be a chaplain in the military you have to have a bachelor s degree, you have to have achieved a master of divinity, but the big piece is that you have to be endorsed by a church as well. So, without the endorsement, and that s whoever you have chosen to be a part of, so you have to have that endorsement from an ecclesiastical denomination to be able to serve as a chaplain in the military. Balmert: While you were deployed were there a lot of Baptists with you? Sizemore: Within the military, the way the religious make-up is, breaks down, is the two largest denomination wise are Roman Catholics and Baptists. And, that s just how the demographics are of the United States, I think. So, about 25% end up being some form of Baptist, 25%, uh, end up being Roman Catholic, and then the other 50% are made up of the other Christian denominations and then you have a small percentage that are Jewish, a small percentage that are Muslim, and then myself as an Orthodox 6

7 Christian, there s a small percentage of them as well that make up the other pieces. And, now you re starting to see a larger, um, Hindu and Buddhist population, and it s kind of based on the regions that people come from as well. If they re from Hawaii and the Pacific Rim, there s a larger, um, Buddhist population among them as well. But, 50% of the people don t recognize, or have a religious preference. Balmert: Do you feel that you were better received by the Baptists that you were around or did it really not matter what the particular denomination that you were? Sizemore: Um, when it came to, um, for counseling and seeking guidance and that sort of thing, most people don t care what your religious background is. Um, and I ve even had atheists and agnostics come to me for counseling and, um, so they re not really concerned with your religious background. Now, when it comes to the religious services and going to church services, uh, most people try to go to what they re familiar with. If they re Baptists, or charismatic, they ll try to go to that or if they re Roman Catholic or from more of a liturgical background they would try to go to the Roman Catholic or the Episcopal type services. So when it came to the worship services they would try to find someone that was more near to their background. Balmert: Were you, bleh, were you well received by your comrades, how were you treated? Sizemore: I was treated just like everyone else, it was no, one thing is as a chaplain even though you re an officer the enlisted side, they re more accepting of you and they re more willing to speak with you even though you re an officer. Just because they view you as a chaplain and and because you d say, at that time I was a First Lieutenant and I was promoted to a Captain when I was in Iraq. So, they, a lot of times enlisted people don t want to talk to officers. And, especially as you go up in rank, but if you re a chaplain they re more open to speaking with you at that point. They don t, they don t, see the rank they just see you as a clergymen. Balmert: Do you feel that officers had an easier time or a harder time talking to you than enlisted personnel would have? Sizemore: Um, it depends, sometimes the officers if they seem me as a peer, so the closer they are to my rank or below, so Captains, some of the Majors, and below; when I was a Captain they were open to speaking with me, but once you start getting up to Lieutenant Colonel and higher as a Captain they see you more as a subordinate and not as a peer so they re less likely to speak with you, um, in that sense. So it was more of a rank structure whether they were open to speak with you or not. And, then also their own religious backgrounds, um, if they came from a background where they were a little more religious, they would be a little more likely to interact and seek your counsel and guidance. But, the less religious they were the less they sought out your guidance at that point. Balmert: How many times were you promoted? Sizemore: I m a major now, so this uh, which is an O-4, so this would be my 4 th promotion as an officer. Balmert: Did you feel that, going along with that same logic that you just explained, that more people were open to talk to you after you had become a major? 7

8 Sizemore: Um, in some respects it kind of alienates you from the lower enlisted side. The more you move up in rank as an officer, the more the lower ranking enlisted people are less likely to speak with you. Um, but as I move up in rank the people that um, I m responsible or more likely to interact with are higher ranking people as well. So, as I move up in rank the people that I interact with more are higher ranking people as well. So, it, uh, it helps in the sense that it makes me more of a peer in being able to speak with the, uh, the people that I m assigned to, but it does kind of alienate me from the lower enlisted, um, the people a little bit more. Balmert: So, did it hurt you to get promoted, in terms of number of people that you were able to talk to comfortably? Sizemore: Um, yes and no. I would say no because the responsibility for lower enlisted people would be more towards a chaplain who is a captain or a 1 st Lieutenant. So, the people that they would go to is, um, they would have a chaplain that they would probably feel more comfortable speaking with. And, for myself as I progress in my career, the the people that I would be more responsible to provide ministry to would be more my peers anyway, they would be higher ranking NCOs, a little older NCOs, um, more of the Captain and field grade officers. In that respect it s more of a benefit to be promoted. Balmert: How long were you in country in Iraq? Sizemore: I was in Iraq from, in my first deployment with the Big Red One was, uh, from February of 04 until February of 05. Balmert: How did you feel being with the Big ruh, Big Red One compared to being with other units? Sizemore: Um, with the Big Red One, there comes a lot more history, um, so in that respect you, because in the military you always want to be part of the, the battalions or the divisions that have the history that goes along with them. So being a part of the Big Red One there was that sense of this long lineage, this long history of a proud organization. So, when you wear that patch on your right shoulder it does give you more of a, you know, sense of pride, because you can walk around and have that Big Red One, and people know what that is. And, then you see all these other people with all these other patches that, that doesn t really have a history or anything to go along with it. Balmert: Do you feel like things ran smooth, more smoothly there or was there no real difference? Sizemore: Um, well with us being in Tikrit, the whole, that whole region was under the Big Red One s command, so there was no real perspective of being, not being under that command, but uh, we were close to the headquarters and things did run pretty smooth, um, there were no stoppages in supply, logistics were pretty good, leadership there was definite leadership as to what needed to be done. Which in the military is a very important piece, so in my respect, in my perspective it was a very good to be part of the Big Red One. Balmert: While you were in Iraq how did perspectives on what you were doing change over time? Sizemore: Um, well when we first, when we first got there it was toward the end of OIF1, which would have been toward the end of the first cycle. And, I think everyone had the perception that, you know, we ll go in, we ll defeat the military, their military, we ll set up, help set up this new government, we ll 8

9 begin to draw back and pull away. But, as we were there we saw the rise of the insurgency with the Sadr and all of that. So, there was a big shift in how things were going. There weren t, they used a few IEDs during the first rotation, OIF1, but when we were coming in there they were starting to implement the IEDs. Which was the, uh, you know, the road-side bombs. Starting to target the, uh, a lot more. So there was a big change and a big shift in perspective on how long is this war going to last, and what s the cost going to be, the longer we were there. Balmert: How about the conversations with the soldiers that you were having, did those change over time? Sizemore: Um, initially when we began to mobilize there was a lot of, you know a lot of the people that come to me, were a lot of people that I don t want to deploy, you know, I have all these issues. Some are legitimate, some are just people trying to get out, um, but there were some of the ones that were legitimate, there were a few people that were conscientious objectors and what makes that kind of different from, you know, when there was a draft was everyone chooses to come into the military. So, if you re a conscientious objector you had to have some major change in your religious views since you joined the military. And, there were a few of those people, and then as we moved into theater, um, a lot of those discussions died away and it became more about, you know, family issues, you know, and dealing with family back home. And then after we were there a while, it would ve been July, we had our first casualty, and once we started, once we had a casualty then people would be really begin to focus on, you know, mortality. Um, what will happen to me? What will happen to my family? And then in August we had two more of our soldiers were killed. Fortunately we only had three soldiers from our battalion killed, but we did have a lot of purple hearts and people evacuated for injuries as well. So, as that starts to happen, you know, then you start having people with a little bit of fear as you get ready to go out the gate. And, so you get engaged in some of those conversations and counseling sessions, and then as we got ready to, to come home it was more about reintegrating with the family and going back home and then and all of that piece. So, that as time went on the deployment cycle the focus of the counseling sessions and discussions changed. Balmert: When you were talking to soldiers that had been recently wounded, what kind of conversations were you having with them? Sizemore: Um, a lot of times I didn t get to speak to them right away when they had been wounded because they had been evacuated before we got to them before we got to them. Because, we were up at FOB Spiker a lot of times if they were wounded they d be taken to, um, Anaconda, which was where the airport was and the aircraft to, and the cache to fly them out. A lot of times by the time I got there they were already gone, they were already on the aircraft and back toward Germany. Um, but usually it was just more comforting, asking them how they re doing, maybe having prayer with them. Um, answering any questions that they had, but the one thing that they would do for them was give them a satellite phone, so that they could call home, because their family was going to find out that they were wounded, but if the soldier was able to call home and say hey, you know, tell their family I was wounded I m going to be OK, I m getting ready to go to Germany it was a less of a strain on the family wondering what was happening. So, my conversations with them would be, just more about, you know, providing the amount of comfort that I could, because they were on the aircraft almost immediately to go to Germany to go to the hospitals there. Balmert: What was the greatest challenge in being a chaplain in the armed forces? 9

10 Sizemore: Um, I think sometimes the greatest challenge was when we did have KIAs. Because, you don t get to quit when someone gets killed, you don t get to say, you know, I m not going out today, I m not going to go out the gate today. The missions don t stop coming just because someone got killed. So being able to continue to provide comfort, continuing to provide the counsel to people who start having all these questions about, you know, my own mortality, what are we doing here? Um, why is this important? Being able to answer all of those questions, in the midst of knowing you re, you got a memorial service in a couple of days, and being able to provide those words of comfort to the people even though you know as soon as that s over they might be going out, getting in a vehicle and heading back outside the gate and could be engaged by the enemy again. So, in that sense that s kind of difficult, it s a lot of stress that goes along with that, lack of sleep, uh, and all of that it just kind of builds up over time. Balmert: By contrast what do you feel your greatest success was? Sizemore: Uh, seeing people s lives change for the positive. The one thing about being deployed is that you have a lot of time. So, when during the deployment that was the first time a lot of people had time to sit and to think, because when you re back here in the United States, we have such busy lives, that you don t really think about a lot of stuff. So when we were there it gave people time to think and to question about, you know, well what is important in my life and what am I doing and being able to speak with them and guide them and see people s lives change for the positive, you know, have, uh, it s kind of strange and kind of a paradox, but some people had better communication with their families by being in Iraq than they would have if they had been back in the United States. Because, your conversation had to be very deliberate and the only thing you could do is talk on a phone or send an back and forth. So as a result of that, a lot of people began to communicate with their families a lot more and being able to talk with them and help them repair some damages that were in their relationships, and seeing positive changes come about in the families. For me that was some of the best things that came about. Balmert: Were there any women in your battalion? Sizemore: With the 216 th we did have, um, I think about 10% of the population was female, so that would ve been about 60 females. Balmert: How did your interaction with the women differ from with the men? Sizemore: Uh, a lot of things were pretty similar. Um, one of the probably the differences would be, you know, of course men were separated from their children as well, but to have mothers separated from their children, that s a little more different, seems a little more, um, maybe a little more emotional sometimes. And, uh, and also just, uh, there was always the threat of sexual assault and that was a real threat, and we did have a few females who were sexually assaulted. Um, and having to deal with them in that situation, um, but still they had the same issues that all the soldiers did, whether male or female. But, you know, that was probably the biggest one. What kind of helped with our female population was the Sergeant Major for our battalion, uh, was a female as well. So, the command Sergeant Major Verna Henderson, being a female, I think that helped bridge the gap and alleviate a lot of the, what would have been, you know, some tension between the male and the female population. With having one of our senior NCO, being female I think that helped, uh, things be a lot better for the female population that we had. 10

11 Balmert: Do you feel that you were adequately prepared to have all of these interactions or did you just kind of learn as you went along? Sizemore: I don t know how that you could ever prepare, the learning process being there, yea I learned a lot and I changed a lot from that time period. But, um, I don t know how you could ever prepare for the different things that took place, just so many things in your life is impacted by so many ways that it would be hard to say ok in this situation is what you should do. You just kind of got to adapt to the situation as best you can. Balmert: How do you feel that you were changed by this process? Sizemore: Uh, I think I matured a lot. Uh, the being, you learn what s important, uh, I think myself when I came home I realized there were certain things that I wanted to do, whereas before I probably would ve been concerned about what other people thought or is this what I should do in life, is this what people want me to do. And, you think, because you look at things from that perspective whether you realize it or not, you know, you want to appear to do what s right for other people. And, even some of it is for your family, is this the career path that is going to give me most income to support my family. And, after being deployed, you realize life is short, you know. Enjoy what you got, um, renew those friendships, renew those relationships with family. Because, those are the important things, so I think that was the biggest change that took place for me. Balmert: How did you deal with your own stress when you were in Iraq. Sizemore: Uh, talking to, we had another chaplain that was nearby, Chaplain Millican, Mory Millican. He and I would, uh, sit and commiserate together and share stories back and forth and be a sounding board back off of one another. But, I had other friends, uh, other peers who I still, we meet on a regular basis, just those friendships, and just being able to have camaraderie. It s not all, for us we would get together and watch a movie and laugh and just do different things like that to make it through the time. Balmert: What was the biggest pressure you felt on yourself? Sizemore: The biggest pressure I think the, probably the biggest pressure I can remember was during those times when we did have KIAs. Um, when we did have soldiers killed, just trying to, you know, provide comfort for those who have lost a friend, have lost a comrade in arms. And, then being able to give them what they needed to move forward and then to make it through the rest of the time period that they were going to be there. For me that was probably the most pressure that was placed upon me. Balmert: When did you rotate back home? Sizemore: In February of 05. The, um, we left theater and came back to the United States; to Camp Atterbery, Indiana is where we moved from Balmert: Did you notice a lot of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder? Sizemore: No, not for myself, no. I was, uh, I think at that time it was fairly easy for me to merge back into my civilian life that I had here. Um, you know, I, my wife and I were married, but we didn t have any children at that time. And, um, I went back, um, I was a chaplain full time in the National Guard at that time as well. So, you know I came back, for me it was an easy transition, at, during that time period. 11

12 Um, my second deployment I never had any PTSD, but the reintegration back into the family, back into the civilian life after my second deployment was more difficult. Even though my second deployment was more, um, there was no real threat of danger because we were in Kuwait the majority of the time, for some reason it was more stressful than the first deployment that was dangerous, and there was always a threat of danger, life threatening or injury. But, for some reason that one wasn t as difficult as my second deployment, reintegrating back. Balmert: Why do you think that would be, that the second one would be harder? Sizemore: Yea, I don t know I ve thought about that a lot. I really haven t come to a good answer as to, uh, why that is. I think some of it is, the separation, you re away from home so much that, uh, you almost develop this mentality or you detach a little bit. Because, if when you deploy you have to detach somehow, to, you ve got to detach your emotions a little bit, um, when you re there. Because it s hard to call home and be missing home and your family a lot. If every time you call home and you re homesick and all of that it just wears you down, so you detach somewhat emotionally. From my first deployment and coming back and then deploying a second time, there s never, it s almost, and then even when we came back they said you re a unit of interest to go again in So that whole aspect of it, it almost mentally and emotionally you never really reengage back with the community because you know you re going to leave again. And, I think that s the biggest piece that s made it a little bit more difficult to reintegrate this time. Balmert: While you were out in country in Iraq or Kuwait what kind of communication did you have with your family? Sizemore: Um, we were fortunate because we were the second rotation. There were a lot of satellite, they had contracted to have satellites in place, and our battalion part of our MWR funds we used to contract to have a satellite available. And, we had nine phones and I think like 20 computers that we could use to communicate back to the rear. And, I called home about once a week and I ed almost every day, I could send a quick , hey I m doing ok and people could communicate with me. And, so that communication piece was there, so it was fairly easy for us. Balmert: Did you communicate on a regular schedule or did you try to make that irregular? Sizemore: I tried to call home at least once a week, um, that so my wife knew that I was ok and all of that, and uh, I did try to at least once a day back home as well. And, sometimes the messages were just very short how re you doing, everything s ok here um, if there was some kind of thing that had happened that day you might try to communicate that if it was something of interest. I tried to do that on a daily basis. But, I usually only called my wife. Because you only had half an hour, you could only get on the phone for 20 minutes, and it was for me, it was kind of difficult to get in the line and wait and all that. So usually when I did call it was only to my wife. I never, I didn t want to use my phone time for anyone else, other than to speak to my wife. Balmert: How did your day to day life differ from when you were in Kuwait versus being in Iraq? Sizemore: Well, when I was in Kuwait it was just this past year so that would ve been, um, 2008 was that last year? Um, so that whole time I was in Kuwait which was, you know, Iraq was a lot calmer than it was and for the most part I drove all over Kuwait in an SUV, with just another person and we didn t 12

13 have to wear any body armors or Kevlars or anything. And, Kuwait is very western so all the road signs are in English, they re in Arabic and English. They drive on the right side of the road like we do. Um, so uh, I traveled quite a bit throughout Kuwait, and planned a lot of NWR trips for my guys so they could get off the camps. In that respect it was a lot, it was almost like being here in some respects, but my battalion they did, um, security for all the convoys going into Iraq. So, everyday a 12 man team would, uh, head north into Iraq. So, even though we were stationed in Kuwait the majority of the time, the patrols, they were almost in Iraq. Um, and they would travel from Kuwait all the way to Mazul, as far east as Caldwell, which was almost by the Iranian border. And, they would go out to Fallujah which was west of Baghdad. So they were all over Iraq during that time period, even though I spent most of my time in Kuwait. Balmert: How, how, were your interactions different with these men from when you were in country together at a forward operating base? Sizemore: Um, when I was with the engineer battalion it was large groups that would go and do jobs. So, um, we would send large groups of people to other FOBs, but it would be a platoon size element or even sometimes a company size element that would go to another camp and help build up the force structure there. So, I was, I got to know those people a lot better, um, had a lot more interaction with them and we lived a lot closer together, so I got to know them very well. This time, we had these little small man, small units they were squad size elements of 12 people and they were going out on a regular basis so I never really had a lot of, I never developed a lot of relationships with them because we weren t even on the same camp together very much. Um, they would come back go through a quick reconstitution, you know get their ammo, clean their gear, do some maintenance and then they were back on the road again. So, I just, just the way the mission ran I never had an opportunity to develop a lot of relationships with them. Balmert: did that make your job more difficult? Sizemore: It did because part of being a chaplain is the relationship piece, um, people are more willing to talk to you if they know you, and they see you out with them, they realize that you re willing to do the same things that they are. Um, and then as you build those relationships, that then provides the opportunities for people to speak with you. But, with the way that these missions were running I just wasn t able to develop those relationships, which then made it difficult or made people a little less reluctant to come speak with me about different issues. Balmert: What kind of expectations were put on you as a chaplain? Sizemore: Well one thing that s good about being a chaplain is a lot of times commanders don t know what your job is, and so the bad thing is a lot of time your commanders don t know what your job is. So, they, their expectations are kind of low or they really don t even know what you re supposed to do. I would spend as much time educating my commander on this is what I can do for you and this is how I can increase your, um, your man power, this is how I can increase the moral of your unit or so I would have to educate him on what I could do so he could get from me. So that a lot of times they don t know what to expect from you, so the expectations aren t that high sometimes. Balmert: How about the enlisted personnel what did they expect of you? 13

14 Sizemore: Um, usually they want you to be a listening ear. The one thing that a chaplain can offer that no one else can is confidentiality. So the know that they can come and whatever they need to talk about they can. And, so a lot of times I would have people come and they would just tell me stuff and I would say well what do you want me to do with this and they would say nothing I just wanted to be able to talk to someone that wasn t in my chain of command or someone that doesn t know anything about it and I would say ok. They would just come and talk and leave and that would be it. So there was, the biggest thing was they wanted someone to be able to talk to that knew that, actually, they felt cared about it and cared about them as a person and not just as another soldier, another, you know, number. This was someone that cared about them as a person. I think that was the expectation that most of them had. Balmert: Do you feel like you had to set an example, be a moral guide for these people or were you just there primarily to have these one on one interactions. Sizemore: No, um, as a chaplain I think you re a symbol as well. Because people don t even refer to you as, you know, you re always chaplain that was one thing when I came home, I was glad to hear someone say my name, because I was chaplain all the time. So there is the expectation that the chaplain is, um, you re the representative of God there, whatever your religious preference is. And, um, people begin to see you as that, and you are the moral compass. When people start getting on, or going down the wrong way or maybe doing some things that you might think would be inappropriate as the chaplain they expect you to be the voice and say hey maybe we shouldn t do this, have you thought about the people, um, have you thought about the moral implications if you do do this. And, so that is the role of the chaplain outside of just being a counselor for people. Balmert: Do you feel like there was any kind of mentality that you should be sacrificing because you re the chaplain? For instance you said, you didn t, you only had 20 minutes or so to spend on the phone a day was there any kind of expectation that, you know, you could forgo those twenty minutes to benefit another soldier? Sizemore: Uh, no, because there was a sign in roster it was open to everyone, it wasn t just because I was an officer. Everybody had the same opportunity and I didn t have more opportunity than anyone else, it was you go in you could sign in. And, usually the times I went, I would usually try to go early in the morning, um, and a lot of people didn t go then, and a lot of times I could get on the phone fairly quickly. So, I didn t feel that I was preventing anyone else from being able to use the phone. Balmert: When you first came back from Iraq what were, your, what were the soldiers that came back with you what kind of emotions and things were they feeling? Sizemore: Uh, initially when you get home you re just glad to be home. I think after the first deployment everybody had a sense of I signed up, this is what I signed up to do, I did my job, I did my part for the, you know, the mission, whatever it was you felt like you had that sense of accomplishment. Um, the closer you were to the people that were killed you had that sense of loss that they didn t come home with you, um, and you had a sense of loss for their family. But, you know, initially it was just you re glad to be back home and to be back with your family. Balmert: What about the second time, was there a difference? 14

15 Sizemore: Yea, it kind of goes back to that, what I was talking about before. Where you just have this sense, you don t really reconnect like you did before, because you almost have the sense that you re going to be deploying again, uh, so you don t really fully reengage with your family or even your career or whatever it was because you know you re going to have to leave again. So, you kind of stay reserved and don t commit as much as you did before, I think. Balmert: Do you lose that sense of accomplishment the second time? Sizemore: Um, I would say in some respects yes. Um, then we felt, I think initially we felt like this is going to be short, you know we did our part and we re bringing it to a conclusion. But, now it s been going on for so long it s almost like, ok um, it kind of takes away from that sense of accomplishment because it, you know before you had definite this is what we accomplished this mission was we just provided security, there was no sense of being able to say this is what we accomplished. Um, other than we did this many patrols, so yea I think that s the biggest one, you can t define this is what we did and this is the benefit that we brought to the region. Balmert: Did growing unpopularity of the war at home affect the soldiers that you were with? Sizemore: No, um, again it s an all volunteer force so the majority of people enlisted to; the second one was an infantry battalion, so they wanted to be in the infantry they desired to be there. So the view from here I don t think impacted them tremendously. Yea. Balmert: How were you received when you came home by the general public? Sizemore: Um, I still any time I m in uniform, I still have a good reception. People buy you meals, people come up shake your hand, thank you for your service and I ve always had, I ve never really had a negative incident from being in uniform. And so, I can see, I can t even remember one, every engagement has always been positive. Balmert: When you came back both times, the soldiers that were with you did you notice any kind of PTSD? Sizemore: Um, for myself I also work full time for the VA. I m a counselor family therapist for the VA. And, so we deal a lot with, the vet centers all we do is counsel people with Pt, combat veterans so we see a high percentage of people with PTSD. But I, I just, I haven t seen the numbers that everybody focuses upon, they think everybody has PTSD and even one of the things, I worked with another group connecting Ohio veterans to behavioral health resources. And, PTSD isn t the issue that I see effecting everyone it s more of the reintegration and the family structure, you know, when you ve separated one of the members out of the family so many times, you know, that s the big thing that I see people needing assistance with, is the family structure. How to, I know a guy he deployed, uh, twice, but, uh, you know, when he first went to leave his son was five, and over four time period he s been physically away from home for two years and then when you are back here you re gone away to schools and you re gone a lot anyway. So now his son s nine and from five to nine his dad s never really been around, he has another son that s one at the beginning and now he s five and he s never really been around. So you have that family structure that they re not used to dad being there, it s like how do you reintegrate into that, you know. And that s, PTSD is, it s a factor, but that s maybe effecting 10% of the population and even that would be, some people have a mild case of PTSD and then you have some people who have chronic 15