Rockdale. Rod Nockles. 7:00pm

Transcription

1 Council: Delegate: Venue: Rockdale Rod Nockles Georges River 16ft Sailing Club (Sans Souci) Date: 2 February 16 Time: 7:00pm Ladies and Gentlemen, if you would like to take a seat we might make a start. Well good evening and welcome and thanks very much for being with us this evening. My name is **** and I will be helping to facilitate today s proceedings to ensure that they run smoothly and efficiently and finish on time. Before we proceed to the formal part of the enquiry I would like to remind you please, if you haven t signed in on the way in, if you would do so on the way out. For those of you who haven t already done so could I ask you to turn your mobiles off or to silent. Just a couple of very quick house-keeping matters, the toilets are out of these doors and to the right-hand side and in the very unlikely event of emergency, the emergency evacuation procedures are through this door and this door and assemble in the car park behind me. Just before I introduce the Delegate for this public enquiry to formally open today s public enquiry and talk you through the process, just a couple of matters I would like to draw to your attention. On the walls behind you there are details of the procedure for these public enquiries. I won t bore you with the detail but I just want to draw to your attention a couple of matters. Speakers are advised and there will be a number of registered speakers this evening that the process will be audio recorded. The purpose of that is to make sure that the Delegate has a very accurate record that he can refer to and develop a transcript if necessary to assist him in his deliberations and either the transcript or the recording will be posted up on the website. So if people have an objection to being recorded, you do need to let us know, but all speakers will be recorded. Also, when we come to the registered speakers I will be inviting people to come to the lectern. Our first speaker will come from Council, Council will have minutes and other individual speakers will have five minutes. My practice will be to give you a two-minute indication and then a one-minute indication that your time is up. So it s now my very great pleasure to introduce Rod Nockles who is the Delegate for today s enquiry. Ladies and gentlemen, Rod Nockles. Rod Nockles: Thank you ****. As **** said, my name is Rod Nockles and I am the Delegate who has been appointed to examine the proposal of a merger between the City of Botany Bay Council and Rockdale City Council. I have been appointed there are two relevant provisions of the Act so Section 263 of the Local 1

2 Government Act is the provision which causes this enquiry to be held and conducts the nature of this enquiry and section 218 of the Act is the provision which has allowed the Chief Executive Officer of the local government office here in New South Wales to appoint me as a delegate to consider this proposal. Just before we commence I would like to do a couple of things and the first of those is to acknowledge that we are privileged today to be meeting on aboriginal land and I would like to pay my respects to elders both past and present and to any aboriginal people who may be present with us here this evening. I would also like to acknowledge a number of Councillors who are present with us, I apologise if I miss any of you, I will endeavour not to do so. We have Mayor, Bill Saravinovski, we have Miss Meredith Wallace, the General Manager, we have Councillor James MacDonald, Councillor Andrew Tsounis and from Botany Bay Council we have Mayor Keneally, we have deputy Mayor Kondilios, we have Councillor George Glinatsis, Councillor Christina Curry and Councillor Mark Castle, apologies if I have missed anybody. I have missed somebody? Who have I missed? Brian Troy: Councillor Brian Troy. Rod Nockles: Thank you very much Councillor Troy, my apologies but you are most welcome. There you are, and Councillor Liz Barlow. 4 So just to explain a little bit about the process and what it is and is not meant to do. My role as delegate is to conduct this public enquiry into the proposal that is for us today so it s beyond the scope of my activities to examine other possible proposals so my role is to consider carefully the submissions that will be presented both orally and in written form and for me to consider those in the context of the proposal that s before us. I will then prepare a written report which will go to the Boundaries Commission who will provide comments on my report and then along with those comments and my report that will go to the Minister who is ultimately responsible for making a final determination on whether this proposal should proceed, should be rejected or should proceed in an amended form, a slightly amended form. So that s our task here today. We have allotted a speaking time, so I propose that Council will be given minutes to speak. We heard from Botany Council earlier in the day, so we will be hearing from Rockdale this evening for a period of minutes, or no more than minutes. It s then my intention to give individual members of the public minutes to address me should they wish. The nature of the public enquiry is it s not a question and answer format. I am impartial in this process. I don t see it as my role to be an advocate either for or against the proposal. We take it as given that people have familiarised themselves with the proposal, we do have a number of copies of the proposal here if people would like to refresh their memory. In the back corner, as **** indicated, there is a map of the proposed new boundary as well so people can address themselves to that. In the spirit of affording the community an opportunity to convey to me any information that they wish to, I will at my discretion afford other people an opportunity to speak if they hadn t previously registered. We did require 2

3 people to register this evening to speak and a number of you have done just that. We are here until pm this evening, or at least I m here until pm this evening, I don t know whether you all will be and so any time up until that point there is an opportunity for people to speak. So if you are sitting here this evening and you hadn t registered, I will give you that opportunity, time permitting and I would just ask that you register over in the back corner if you would. I would ask people to remain to the point on this proposal. If there are people who are speaking from a prepared script and you are making much the same point, I might at some point in the evening in the interests of making sure that everybody has an opportunity, I might ask those who are doing so simply to stand. We will take your names. That way the weight of your views will be conveyed to me and I will be able to take that into consideration without us all stepping through hearing much the same point. So I will make a judgment on that as we proceed through the evening should that be necessary. There are a number of factors which I need to turn my mind to in terms of considering this proposal. They have been made public but just for the purposes of people s information here this evening: financial advantages or disadvantages of the proposal to the residents and the ratepayers; the communities of interest and geographical cohesion; the existing historical and traditional values of the existing areas; the attitude of residents and ratepayers; the requirement of the area concerned to elected representative for residents and ratepayers; the impact of the proposal on the ability of Council to provide adequate, equitable and appropriate services and facilities; the impact of the proposal on the employment of staff by Council; the impact of the proposal on any rural communities in the resulting area, which I don t think will be relevant for this evenings proceedings; the desirability or otherwise of dividing the resulting area or areas into wards; the need to ensure that the opinions of each of the diverse communities of the resulting areas are effectively represented and then finally, any other factors that people deem may be relevant. So I would encourage you to provide the information that you wish in a forthright manner. I would ask that we be courteous to one another. We certainly were in the earlier session today and I see no reason why that won t continue, so with that in mind, I think I will hand over to our convenor and we might get this evening s proceedings under way. Thank you. Thank you, our first speaker this evening is Councillor Bill Saravinovski who is the Mayor of Rockdale Council. B. Saravinovski: Good evening ladies and gentlemen, I would like to acknowledge this event is being held in aboriginal land and recognises the strength, resilience and capacity of the Australian aboriginal people of this land. Firstly, I would like to acknowledge my colleagues from Botany Council that are in attendance in the meeting and also want to acknowledge my Council colleagues from Rockdale. 3

4 Thank you for giving me this opportunity to address this public forum. My Council s position on amalgamation is based on three guiding principles: 1. keeping an open and balanced perspective; 2. supporting opportunities that do not financially disadvantage Council and this community; and 3. maintaining Sydney Airport with one local government area. The merger proposal to amalgamate Rockdale City with the City of Botany suggests a new Bayside Council delivering services and facilities for 0,000 residents in 16. Having regard to the State government criteria by which this proposal will be assessed, Rockdale has already started looking at the proposal and the KPMG financial assumptions relating to those that we know of about our community. Our approach to the merger proposal is based on fact. Rockdale understands that the premise of the new Bayside Council will be a strength and ability to speak of one voice on the management of the airport and the Botany Bay foreshore. These key principles of New South Wales infrastructure are the most strategic economic assets in the proposed Council area. In our written submissions we will provide detailed feedback on what we consider are important to the proposed Council s success. Including identifying opportunities and risks that need to mitigate a successful outcome for a new Council. I would like to note that whilst Rockdale Council will be providing written comments to each of these criteria our analysis has been done from isolation of the City of Botany, the other local Council affected by the merger proposal. My response today, as Mayor of Rockdale and the content of our formal submission is based on information about Botany which is publicly available. Local Identity. I would like to begin by addressing the existing and traditional values that are very important to our community and one of them is the State government s criteria. Our community consultation in indicated that onethird of respondents preferred our Council to stand alone, whilst around 6% of residents expressed a positive acceptance of a merge of some kind. This indicates a strong level of community understanding and acceptance for the principle of a merger but it should be noted that the majority of the residents preferred and supported a future St. George Council. At present Rockdale Council has a sense of identity with St. George, with 0 years history of identifying and linking Rockdale, Kogarah and Hurstville, sporting organisations, non-government organisations and they like being referred to as a St. George area. What I must say is that if we could focus on the community of interest, we know that Rockdale and Botany share diverse and vibrant communities. More than one-third of our residents in both areas were born in countries where English is not the first language. We have a fast emerging community from Bangladesh and Nepal. 23% of the working residents in the combined Rockdale/Botany Council area would be employed in the new Council boundary. That is, they would live and work in a new 4

5 Council area, with many employed in key industries such as transport, postal and warehouses. 4 While I have said that the St. George brand has a long and proud tradition, I would also acknowledge that our area is undergoing great change. At the Northern boundary we have new residential areas emerging with a strong connection to the Sydney CBD and the universities of Randwick and Broadway. These significant changes of urban renewal are occurring in locations close to the airport at Wolli Creek and Mascot station, with increasing opportunities of medium and high-density dwellings planned. The future development of Cooks Cove is a large residential precinct beside the airport which will see an even stronger connection to the city and the Eastern area for employment, education and recreation. It is acknowledged that the metropolitan planned district does not align with proposed new Council boundaries and would ask the State government to consider whether realignment is desirable. The airport. I would like to make a brief comment on Sydney airport. Rockdale City Council, supports and has expressed a view that the airport at its earlier sessions today that one Council should be responsible for the management and oversight of the airport land. It is acknowledged that the current merger proposal doesn t quite achieve this. With ongoing community support, Rockdale City Council is committed to uphold and keep our strong position in maintaining the existing revenue received from Sydney airport for the rate equivalent payments. It is acknowledged that the current merger proposal to join Rockdale and Botany supports the position and maintains the airport revenue within the surrounding areas for the benefit of the impacted communities. The airport can be seen as a barrier to unification of a common core that brings us all together. This positive approach would be examined by the communities across employment, physical presence, surrounding infrastructure and the significance to local businesses. In our opinion the airport provides employment to over 28,000 people and has around 800 businesses. A large number of these workers are residents of the communities surrounding the airport. Particularly in the Sutherland Shire and the Rockdale local government area, with significant numbers of airport related employees living in Botany and the St. George areas. Financial consideration. Another criteria for examining Mr Nockles is consideration of the financial advantages and disadvantages of the merger proposal. I will today respond to what I see as misleading statements within the merger proposal. The statement concerns Rockdale s financial positions based on the 13 figures. Our sound financial position was confirmed by IPART assessment in that Rockdale meets all For the Future benchmarks in terms of the financial performance. I repeat, our sound financial position was confirmed by IPART s assessment in, that Rockdale meets all Fit for the Future benchmarks in terms of the financial performances. However, the merger proposal states Rockdale is spending more than it earns. That is not correct. This statement needs to be clarified. It s not like the comparison between two partner Councils. The same calculation on revenue and costs has not been made on both Councils. The

6 4 key difference is depreciation of assets we care for. It s a commonplace for these differences to be misunderstood. Our two Councils do not use the same depreciation calculation of these assets and there is no one single mandated depreciation calculation. Councils have the choice. At Rockdale we have taken the responsibility position to calculate our depreciation on realistic estimates of the life of our assets. Other Councils have not taken this choice. I cannot speak for other Councils but I can speak on Rockdale. As an example, we took Botany Council s calculation method and their long life assumption of assets on annual deprecation we dropped from $6. million to $12.3 million. This would represent a financial on the books only saving of $4.17 million. We reconfirm that our assumption is based on the publicly available information drawn from Botany s public annual financial statements. If we were to do this calculation comparing like with like this misleading quote as to our spending more than we earn would be turned around to say Rockdale earns more than it spends. Similarly, Rockdale has taken a responsible attitude towards debt levels which are modest and currently being used to address our infrastructure backlog. Our 3% backlog represents half of the existing backlog of Botany Council, which is 7%. Services. Another criteria for the delegate to relate is services and facilities. The two Councils provide a wide range of services to their residents. These services go significantly beyond the traditional roads, rates and rubbish and are aimed towards broader objectives to promote the social, economic, environmental and cultural well-being of the communities. Both Councils appear to have a common objective to ensure value for money for their ratepayers and to provide a mix of services and funding arrangements that best meets the needs of the community. The differences in services are not simple in terms of the type of delivery but in a policy position adopted some sound direct provisions of services and facilitation and delivery through other mechanisms such as Rockdale s history of providing indirect support for community services through external service providers. Service providers and the creation of a new suite of services is a priority for the new Council and should form the basis of a strong consultation approach. The response to the consultation will advise the new Council of services required including the expected levels of service that will meet community needs. My Council has already commenced reviewing how we provide services to the community, staff have been undertaking internal house-keeping and working on their policies, including developing a very comprehensive business survey of the organisations to prepare for a merger. Our expertise in coastal management. Rockdale Council, and I am proud of this, has been a leader in coastal management for more than 0 years. This time we have partnered with the State government and other agencies to have a better understanding of how to manage our beach and foreshore areas, developing significant experience and expertise in maintaining 8 kilometres of Lady Robinson Beach, stretching from Sandringham to the South of Kiama to the North of the City. Historically Botany Bay and the foreshore is a focal point of residents and visitors for swimming and water sports, fishing, walking, cycling, sport, recreation and lifestyle. In regards to the community values, the quality of the environment, cleanliness of the 6

7 4 beach and cleanliness of the parks adjacent to the beaches that are most popular will be continued by our Council. The most important issues for beach and foreshore management include: coastal protection; sand drift; sea level rise; climate change and environmental service; provisions for traffic, transport and parking. The management, protection and enhancement of our unique natural environment is the core of our decision making with increased pressures to develop an area for tourism, residential, commercial and recreational purposes. The proposed new Council with responsibility for the majority of these significant environmental assets will ensure the ongoing stability for future generations. I will touch on the environment. The environmental management of the combined local councils will also enjoy a strong voice of one Council. Both Councils have similar wetlands habitats and therefore both Councils face similar opportunities and challenges for managing the environment. A challenge exists for the new Council to forge a new relationship as Rockdale Catchment and associated management is the Cooks River Alliance and Georges River combined Councils Committee. Botany is not a member of either of these associations and as they will fall under the Alexandra Canal catchment, as such a new approach to the region will be required. The Alexandra Canal cycleway is a good example of environmentally friendly, healthy, low cost and fun way of getting around the city and suburbs. Rockdale s recreation network is The Cook Park cycleway along Sydney s most famous Botany Bay foreshore. To the north it connects to Cooks River cycleway to Tempe and to the east the Olympic Park at Homebush. I just want to touch on the Ward boundaries. The merger proposal provides an opportunity to fine-tune our existing boundaries. Marrickville City Council still holds airport land within its boundaries. This may need to be addressed and the new Council will have the responsibility of management of all airport. Other tweaks to the boundaries could be made in [indecipherable] Avenue, Arncliffe to follow Wolli Creek as to the boundary of Kingsgrove. An alignment may be needed with Kogarah Town Shopping Centre. Elected representations. Finally, I would like to turn to this question. My Council currently has Councillors, Botany has a Council of 7, with a combined Council its 3 residents. We have yet to make a formal decision in terms of whether we should have boundaries or no boundaries and we look forward to debating that in the next two or three weeks. We acknowledge that the merger of the proposal has supported Rockdale s view that one Council should have an oversight to the New South Wales key infrastructure, being Sydney Airport, historical Botany Bay and surrounding foreshores. The State s desire to strengthen local government strategically in capacity and expanding a more prominent role is a key component of local government reform. Can I just finally say, I would like to publicly thank the community of Rockdale for their tremendous support in our position and that is that my Council has been committed to adopt reform in local government which has been long 7

8 overdue and I would like to thank my Councillors who have taken a very bipartisan support. Whilst our issue was and our feelings our still that we should remain part of St. George, we have accepted the decision that the State government wants reform and we are willing to participate in whatever reforms are required for the benefit of the community. Thank you. Speaker 3: Speaker 4: Can I invite speaker number 3, please, ****, to the lectern. Good evening ladies and gentlemen, I will be short and brief. I don t want to see the debate about the larger or smaller Council heading the same way which the debate about whether Australia should become a republic or remain as it is now. My real concern is about the level of service the so called merger would do. Whatever service will increase or decrease, whatever, it s just another way for the State government to save money. If it is for the sake of saving money, will the Councils meet the need and the larger Councils meet the needs and demands of the growing population with better infrastructure or open space for our children, like childcare, like libraries, like parking as well and swimming pools and so on? Are we going to see the delays in the process of applications for development or other things for the area and more bureaucracy? We cannot see more bureaucracy. Are we going to see longer queues at the counter just to have our simple enquiry answered? Are we going to be able to hear a person s voice when we call rather than answering machines like we do now sometimes in departments? Are we going to see the hike in rates and so on and so much more? Thank you very much for hearing me. Could I invite speaker number 4 please, Mr **** to the lectern. Good evening Mr Nockles, good evening ladies and gentlemen. My name is **** and I m from Rockdale. I am here to give you my personal opinion on the proposed Rockdale/Botany merger. I am not totally opposed to Council amalgamations, although I am a little bit sceptical about the savings that are supposed to eventuate. But there s one thing I feel very strongly about. The new Council areas have to make sense and that s why I ask. Botany why Botany? And I don t mean to be disparaging towards Botany. I am sure lots of people in Botany are asking Rockdale? Why Rockdale?. Of all the boundaries with adjacent Councils, the boundaries which the average Rockdale or Botany dweller is least likely to cross is the boundary between Rockdale and Botany and the reason is obvious. There is a huge airport separating Rockdale and Botany. Now, a Rockdale, Kogarah, Hurstville merger would have had some logic behind it. Rockdale and Kogarah have a long boundary and Hurstville is the closest major shopping area and mini- CBD to Rockdale. And for Kogarah and Hurstville, the closest major beaches are in Rockdale in a continuous waterfront park from the airport to the Georges River. I think the people of the Councils to be merged, should have a natural affinity for one another. An affinity in the Council riding your bike, walking your dog, swimming, having a picnic, shopping in each other s area, that sort of stuff. 8

9 Something that gives you a stake in each other s streetscapes and parkland and amenities and I don t that s really there between Rockdale and Botany. I want the Councillors who make decisions about Rockdale to be familiar with the neighbourhoods and have a stake in the neighbourhoods which are affected by the decisions that they make and I don t think Botany Councils are well-placed for that and I think that a lot of people in Botany will be feeling the same way about the Rockdale Councillors. So that brings me back to my original question why Rockdale and Botany? Did the people of Kogarah and Hurstville not want Rockdale? Did the rest of the Eastern suburbs not want Botany? That is not a good enough reason to do a Council amalgamation, it doesn t make any sense. Mr Nockles, ladies and gentlemen, I oppose the Rockdale/Botany merger. Could I invite the next speaker to the lectern please, ****. Speaker : Good evening ladies and gentleman, thank you for the opportunity to let me speak on the merger between Rockdale and Botany Bay Councils. Firstly, I believe there is merit in amalgamation of city boundaries. However, merging Rockdale Council with Botany Bay Council is not a good fit. Both of these areas have never been linked because of the geography. For 0 years there was no link between the two regions, which was impassable along the mudflats of Cooks River valley. There was no bridge. Such were the early difficulties presented by rivers and swamps that it took the New South Wales government 96 years to open up the South. It built the Southern rail line from Sydney to Hurstville and with the help of Thomas Saywell, to provide a practical means to access Lady Robinson s beach that Mayor Sarinvonoski talked about. It s now called that main area Brighton le Sands. This suburb lies just 13 kilometres from Sydney Cove and it took 96 years to get access to it. The development of the airport from the 19s at the same location, prevented integration and massive ongoing development of two runways into the bay and Port Botany present major barriers in the Northern corner of the bay. There is no train line to Mascot and Botany. The new light rail project will not link up with Rockdale. I agree with the previous speaker, although I heard you say Mr Nockles that that wasn t part of your report. A better fit is Rockdale and Kogarah Council areas. I recommend that you read the history of Rocky Point Road, which is only 00 metres up the road here, which sits between Rockdale and Kogarah. The history of Rocky Point Road, won the Ron Rathbone history prize. Rocky Point is the tip of San Souci developed by Thomas Holt. I now live at Taren Point but was raised in both Mascot and later Brighton-le-Sands, but I am fortunate my latest home overlooks my beloved Botany Bay. I know these areas well. I was initially raised in Hicks Avenue, Mascot. I was christened at St. Matthews Anglican in Botany Road, my extended family arriving in My family was educated at Gardeners Road school, from the 1890s. My dad played football for both South Sydney and St. George. I went to school at 9

10 Brighton le Sands and later to Sydney Boys High. So I have had a long history of living and working and education in both areas. There are few common activities between the residents of these two regions and I read this paper here briefly and it says on there The communities of Botany Bay and Rockdale share common characteristics and connections, I don t believe that s so. If you look at the travel, for those travelling from Rockdale to Mascot it is a nightmare. The plan, the Southern Roadway was formulated by John Leitch, Mayor of Redfern, in His plan was to ease traffic congestion. We have anything but that now and on each weekday 34,000 vehicles travel along General Holmes Drive and the Grand Parade and on weekends 28,000 vehicles travel along that way. For residents of Council [indecipherable] staff to add and compete with the existing traffic flow would be disastrous. There are many other areas, where there is a lack of commonality. Shopping: the shopping complex for Rockdale and Kogarah would be at Miranda Fair while residents of Botany Bay it is the City or Eastgardens. For politics, there s a mixed political leaning with the liberal party being in minor control or control at both Rockdale and Kogarah where in Botany Bay it s all Labor Councillors. In sport, most residents of Rockdale and Kogarah follow St. George Illawarra Rugby League Club, Botany Bay Council is well and truly a Sydney rugby league area. Health: residents of Botany Bay Council attend Royal South Sydney hospital or a city hospital and few would travel to St. George. Residents of Rockdale and Kogarah would generally use both St. George hospitals and rarely South Sydney. The leisure activities on Botany Bay: Rockdale Council have constructed a 13 kilometre Cook Park Trail from Wolli Creek to San Souci and there are 6 swimming baths fronting Botany Bay. I know of no baths constructed at Botany Bay Council. I don t know that quite as well and that may not be true but I believe it s generally true. Cook Park has a shared walkway, cycleway and there are countless picnic areas. A better merger would be Rockdale and Kogarah Councils. A merger with Kogarah would be a much better fit. Rockdale and Kogarah are both on the Illawarra rail line, the stations are 2 kilometres apart, shared Council facilities would easily be accessible to all residents. Most residents of Rockdale and Kogarah would be hard-pressed to know the exact boundaries of their Council. To them it s one region. Thank you. 4 Speaker 6: Our next speaker is ****. I invite **** to the lectern please. Facilitator ****, Delegate Nockles, thanks for the opportunity. Council amalgamations, my worry is not money, it s its effect on the electoral process. I see Council amalgamations as being less democratic, less representative, less local. Harder for Councillors to represent their constituents. Larger electorates - more expensive for individual candidates to run their campaign. Fewer Councils gives more power to the major political parties, particularly the head office. A number of Councillors see the opportunity to get into State or Federal parliament through local government. They would be more obliged to their party office. One of the major things is it would squeeze out

11 independents and minor parties a big loss. It may make Councillors more susceptible to other influences if their constituents are more distant. People are not asking for Council amalgamations, it s forced, it s top down. Elaborating a little. Less democratic, Council amalgamations, less representative, Council amalgamations, less representation, Council amalgamations, harder for Councillors, Council amalgamations. If you become one of 60 or 70 and now you are one of 0, your individual vote is devalued, halved or worse. Your Councillors will have to represent at least twice as many people and will have less time for each constituent or no time for some. A larger area will have a greater diversity of people and interests. That s fine but then it becomes hard to represent this diversity. More expensive campaigns from amalgamated Councils: Any candidate will be more be more dependent on the political parties to produce the [indecipherable] more amount of money, they will be more beholding to head office. Less able to represent us. More expensive campaigns will lead to fewer Council positions and fewer Council positions will lead to fewer independents and minor parties. Instead of maybe doing a good campaign for 6,000,,000 if you have really got it,,000,,000. Harder for independents, harder for parties. More expensive campaign, certainly don t do anything about the dependence of parties on political donors. Council amalgamations don t do anything for that. Council amalgamations are top down. There is no groundswell for constituents for the amalgamation of Councils. So I don t have much Latin Cui Bono from Council amalgamations, who benefits? I oppose all mergers. I oppose this really strange merger in particular. Thank you for your time. 4 Speaker 7: Can I invite **** to the lectern as our next speaker. Good evening everyone, my name s **** and I have lived in the Botany Bay Council area for 33 years. I am a mother and a grandmother and very concerned and active as much as I can be in our community. I totally oppose this merger with Rockdale Council and I agree with everybody that has spoken before me on the reasons. It s nothing to do with Rockdale Council but I do believe the Minister and his advisers have just looked at a map and the map looks really good, but have you ever tried walking from Botany to Rockdale, no, because there s no pedestrian access whatsoever. If the Minister and his advisers would even drive from Botany to Rockdale in let s say peak hour, there and back, we will see how much he thinks of the merger between the Councils. So I do think it has become a political football, all these forced amalgamations and it will end up just between the two major political parties, Labor and Liberal with the other speakers I agree forcing out small independent people running for Council and there will be less representation. Rockdale does have Spotlight so that s pretty good, but apart from that Rockdale residents will never come to Eastgardens and we will possibly never come this way for shopping. So I do once again say I fully support the previous speakers and their reasons so I won t go over that but I am fully 11

12 opposed to this amalgamation. I feel the Minister and his advisors do need to get out and have a look at the area and not just go on the pretty map. Thank you. Could I invite the next speaker please, ****. Speaker 8: Good evening everybody and thank you to the committee. I am quite unprepared, actually my neighbours behind me, just over there, told me that this meeting was on this evening and so I don t have a prepared speech, I am just going to talk from the heart. My mother and father bought their house in MacMillan Avenue which is two houses from the park here, back in I was born in 1963 in St. George Hospital in Kogarah. I attended San Souci primary school and then went on to Moorefield Girls High School in Kogarah. Obviously I still live there because I walk across the park. That makes us ratepayers for the last 62 years I think. Personally, myself I have been paying rates here for years. I am opposed to this merger because even though I have been away for many of the years, I always come back and this is my home. Unfortunately, what I have seen from Botany is major destruction of the coastal area and I applaud Rockdale Council for all the work that they have done in regeneration. Unfortunately, it doesn t look the same as what it did when I was a young girl. There is now retaining walls in to try and keep the sand in place, many things have happened since the container terminals have gone in. I am against this merger because we here in Rockdale Council are primarily residential people and retail. We are not industrial. Who is going to take care of our foreshores if an industrial Council merges with a primarily residential merger. I would like to make sure that my Botany Bay stays the same for the next generation and I think by having two separate Councils there, would protect everybody s interests. So, once again, everybody said the same thing we don t go to Pagewood. I can take a bus to the city going through Pagewood, but if I am going to the City I take a bus from Dolls Point to Kogarah Station and from Kogarah Station into the city. The boundaries don t match up at all and there is no way that I m am sorry Botany you are going to have an industrial mindset and you are going to proceed doing what s best for your Council area, Rockdale Council needs to defend us and take care of our area here, thank you. Thank you, ****, please; our next speaker, sorry ****. Speaker 9: Good evening everybody, ****, living just across the park. I oppose it totally and I am one that was raised here in San Souci. In fact, on Botany Bay, I lived in a boatshed that burnt down in the mid-60s. Love this area, if there is such a thing as a merger, I won t be happy in the area, I don t believe that it should happen at all. We are totally separated, in fact this peninsular is half Kogarah, half Rockdale, how does that work. What happens to Kogarah. We merge, I don t get it, I simply don t get it and I don t like it, I am totally opposed, yeah, simple as that, I am opposed. Thank you. 12

13 Speaker : Our next speaker is ****. I d like to ask **** to the lectern. I have changed my mind. You ve changed your mind, okay. No problem, thank you. ****. Speaker 11: Thank you very much for giving us the opportunity as a group to provide you with feedback concerning the amalgamations. I share the off-cuff speech tonight, because I was just notified that you were here but was keen to speak. I have been a resident here in Ramsgate for the last seven years but my close family interestingly have been residents in both Councils. So my point is not so much about the synergies that may or may not exist between Botany and Rockdale Councils, although I think that that needs to be very carefully considered. My point is probably shaped more from my experience having worked in Victoria during the compulsory competitive tendering period and amalgamations when Victorian Councils were put together. The one thing that I would say, and it s been shaped out of our personal experience which is adverse, dealing with planning, is that I think that the New South Wales government, irrespective of where anyone sits on the political paradigm has given us an opportunity to be able to embrace a new planning model and within that there are reforms regarding housing and so forth and I think that there is an opportunity for the amalgamations, whether they go through or not or whom it is that Rockdale amalgamates with to better embrace those reforms. What is lacking at the moment is a lack of governance and a lack of probity and a lack of process with regards to the planning processes that are currently being articulated for this Council and from my perspective with regards to best value, if amalgamations present the opportunity for that process to be improved, and I mean materially improved, I think that s a very, very good thing for residents in this part of Sydney. There are enormous amounts of development going on at the moment that you only have to cast your eye around the immediate area and from my perspective I don t think they have been particularly well managed, I am not going to comment whether Botany does it any better, or whether Kogarah does it any better, but from my perspective I think the opportunity to have a look at amalgamation, the opportunity that it represents with regards to overhauling the talent that runs Council, to introduce higher and better levels of professionalism with regards to management and how that then cascades down to the capability of staff that you have in any Council is really what s needed. I do never hear from my local member, the only time I ever hear from him is a leaflet in my box and so from my perspective I don t believe that amalgamation is going to deliver any closer level of proximity to my local member, whomever it is and whichever party they stand for. As I say, if amalgamation leads to a clear way for us to bed able as a State and as a local area to better embrace the reforms that are coming through, irrespective of whether they were started by the former Labor government or the current Liberal government, I think it s a really good thing so I support 13

14 amalgamation because of the value that I believe that it can deliver. Thank you. Our final speaker this evening is ****. Rod Nockles: **** is coming, if there are others who wish to register to speak I will be happy to hear them so, give that some thought while Michael is speaking. 4 Speaker 12: Thanks for the audience tonight. I didn t get to hear the first four speeches, it took me quite a while to get here from Daceyville and I wanted to get home to have dinner with the kids, so just, who I am I have lived in Mascot and Daceyville for pretty much all my life. Worked in around government, worked in Rockdale for a bit and you know you are torn because on one hand a lot of the arguments have been said on one hand you like having very close representation but on the other hand you want Councils to be able to have the wherewithal to deliver to you as a resident as well. So I must say I had mixed views about whether or not I supported amalgamations, but one thing that is very clear to me is that what is being proposed is not the best fit for either Rockdale or Botany. You would have heard arguments about communities of interest. I would also like to flag the issues that both areas will face over the next -0 years. So it s not only how we live now but how we will be living in the future and some of the impacts and the cumulative impacts are better fitted with a different organisational structure. So for example we heard about Kogarah Bay and Botany and Kogarah. While they look good on a map as we heard earlier, it s really a Rockdale and Kogarah management issue. Similarly, if you look at the port precinct and you look at the Eastern beaches, if you look at the corridors that take workers into the city from the South East, it s a Botany Council, it s a Randwick Council, it s a City of Sydney issue and I think the last thing that we want is to have an arrangement of Councils in which you haven t improved the co-ordination of planning in the area and you haven t made it more effective for people s voices to be heard. So I think there is an opportunity with the amalgamation proposals to have stronger Councils and stronger voices and better planning efficiencies. I haven t been able to be made aware of the other options in terms of mergers to see whether there are more efficient options, I don t know whether that has been published and I missed it or it s one of those things where I am sure there s a lot of information but it s just having the time to go through it all. Speaker gave a fantastic narrative of the history of the area but I am thinking of what s happening today as well and you have got a lot of communities of interest around Randwick and Botany and around the St. George area and a lot of that has to do with the way that social capital works and how people come together and organise. So the Eastern Suburbs Football Association for example: they organise around Randwick and Botany. Same with Souths Juniors. There is a lot of community infrastructure which I don t think has been valued in the way that the proposal has been crafted and I think that if we force something that is going against the grain of volunteer effort, we might actually lose some of that effort. So if there s an 14

15 opportunity to engage with the community further and really look at the way people live and the choices people make, I think it will make your decision easier. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen the Delegate has invited others who haven t registered to speak, to speak this evening, is there anyone who would like to register to speak this evening? No? Okay, I might hand back to Mr Nockles. Rod Nockles: Can I just thank you all again, this has been a very courteous meeting, and I particularly want to acknowledge those people who are not used to speaking in public forums and congratulate you for getting up and making a contribution. I have found all of the contributions made earlier today and this evening to be helpful and constructive. Some of them particularly well thought through and they are all going to be taken into consideration by me as I work my way through this and the written submissions and make some final recommendations to the Minister. [BREAK] So can I just thank you for the way that you have participated this evening, I have enjoyed both the earlier session and the session that we have now just had. I will be here until o clock and people are entitled to speak at any time up until that point so I don t expect you to keep me company but you are most welcome to if you wish. So thank you, thank you again. Speaker 13: Ladies and gentlemen, we do have a couple more people who have asked to speak, if you would like to take your seats if you would like to hear them speak, we will invite them to the lectern shortly, thank you. Thank you, **** please, thank you. Hi, good evening. Sorry for the late speech and apologies for being late here, but I went to the other sailing club. I am from Banksia so I don t know anything about this one, I found it a bit strange that it was situated down here and not more in the central area of Rockdale Council itself. However, I am probably one of the few people here that actually is in favour of the amalgamation with Botany and the reasons that I see that that s very logical is that on the other side of us, and you are far away from it really, is the airport and you have got the ports. Both are money producing areas and to me it seems fitting that you would have one Council covering those two very important businesses in one area. Yes, it s difficult, the transportation between the two is not very practical at this stage, but I am sure in time that will be looked at and attended to and it probably shouldn t take too much of a problem to do that. As far as for what people were saying that are from this area, that they don t see any logical fit with Botany, I think you would probably say that people from here don t see any logical fit with Banksia or Arncliffe or Wolli Creek. It is a very diverse area and Botany is no different. I think we all have to be of one and get on together and it doesn t matter where you come from we are a highly integrated country.

16 I think if we do have a merger with Botany, I think perhaps a better infrastructure may emerge from that, certainly there should be cost savings and my example because I actually got to Eastgardens frequently to shop I actually go to Botany to shop and it s practical for me because it s quicker for me to go there than it is to go down this way and certainly I never go to Hurstville so there is never any consideration of that and Kogarah, I don t consider there s any major shopping area for me here. I think if we can blend all of the different things the other thing too, merging the Councils it would probably produce a bigger workload, more employment etc. which is very essential for the shrinking of jobs in today s world with technology and internet and everything else. So yes, I am very in favour of merging the two and I think it s a very good fit, thank you very much. Our final registered speaker now is ****. Speaker 14: Thank you, I am following on from some of the comments made by ****. I have lived in the area all my life, first 18 years at Kiama and the rest of it in Brighton-le-Sands and I know very well, first hand, what has happened to the Bay over the years that I have lived. I swam along the rocks before the runways were built, before Port Botany was the size that it is now. Both those industries have had a huge impact on the lifestyle of the people that live in Rockdale Council as well as the other Council areas. It s had a huge impact on our infrastructure, our roads, the traffic, the noise that we tolerate with the airport and a huge impact on our natural reserves. The money that is spent on replenishing sand is huge. The impact of the traffic and the pollution is huge on our natural environment. No matter what model is finally adopted, the residents of Rockdale deserve income to cover the costs that those two industries have on our lives, they are huge impacts and our Council, whether it s Port Botany and Rockdale or St. George, we deserve to have ongoing income because of the impact of those two industries on our environment and our lifestyle. The other thing that concerns me is with the Councillors having to represent twice as many, if not three times as many residents as they do now, are we going to have further increases in the costs to our Councils because those jobs could very well become full-time jobs with a full-time paid Mayor, not a voluntary position. Thank you. Any further speakers who would like to register to speak before we close? Rod Nockles: In the absence of drumming up further business I will just thank you again and thank the two final speakers, as I said, we are here until o clock, so if anyone wants to speak they are most welcome and we did have in the earlier session people come along a little bit later in the day so I am guessing we may get someone coming a long later in the evening but look thank you again for your participation and coming along, I have found it very helpful so I wish you good night if you are on your way and you are welcome to stay if you wish. Thank you. [BREAK] 16