PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION. November 29, 2001

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1 PLAINFIELD PLAN COMMISSION November 29, 2001 The Plainfield Plan Commission met on Thursday, November 29, 2001 at 7:30 p.m. In attendance were Mr. Thibo, Mr. Matrana, Mr. McPhail, Mr. Ward, Mr. Cavanaugh, Mr. Brandgard and Mr. Haase. CALL TO ORDER/DETERMINATION OF QUORUM PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE OATH OF TESTIMONY Mr. Daniel administered the Oath of Testimony. PUBLIC HEARINGS Mr. Haase reviewed the Guidelines Governing the Conduct of Public Hearings. We will begin off with our public hearing RZ , the Town initiating rezoning 136 acres. Mr. Higbee said you have been anticipating a rezoning request for this area for some time. This would be the East Main Street annexation area, which would be about 136 acres. The request is from AG to General Commercial zoning. The request is in agreement with the recommendations of the Comprehensive Plan. As you can see from information that I gave you tonight, there is an aerial photograph there that indicates quite a mixture of uses. Any of you who that have been driving out on the corridor would know that. There are industrial uses there, particularly south of Main Street. There is, obviously, quite a few commercial uses already there and there are also some residential uses there. However, the comp plan does recommend commercial for development in that area. As well as on the east extending over to Raceway Road on the south side you will see a different zone on your Comprehensive Plan that is called Aairport related commercial.@ That is a different classification of commercial and the entire subject parcel falls within either the red commercial or the airport related commercial on the Comprehensive Plan. So, I would want to point out that some of those uses would, obviously, become legal non-conforming uses at the time that you rezone the existing residential uses and the existing industrial uses. An example of the industrial would be the Pace Air Freight, which I don=t think this rezoning is taking in the entire parcel but it gets part of it along the frontage. So, there may be a few split parcels. It extends up to the property that we often have referred to as the Hobbs property, where the Hobbs Nursery is located going up to CR200S. You will see on the map on the first page of your Staff Report that it does not go north of CR200S into the rest of the annexation area. I had pointed out in the Staff, Comments, Questions and Concerns that it does match the Comprehensive Plan. However, I felt it was useful for the purposes of discussion, and not necessarily to make a suggestion for approval or denial, but just useful to think about how much commercial land we have in the Town of Plainfield. If you look at our zoning map, which you are all familiar with, we have quite a bit of existing commercial development and quite a bit of undeveloped commercial land already. This will be adding another 136 acres to that inventory. So, it bears asking at some point when we continue to add commercial land, is that appropriate or is this in the appropriate location? According to the comp plan it is. I also wanted to point out that the north/south corridor, if developed as anticipated, will split this parcel and would run through the area approximately where North American Manufactured Homes is located today. There would be a benefit to this rezoning administratively. Any of you who are on the Board of Zoning Appeals know that we have had to run several projects through the BZA that really were meant to be run through the Plan Commission. The reason is because as long as these commercial properties along U.S. 40 remain Agriculturally zoned, they don=t fall under our Gateway Corridor!1

2 provisions. The only way that we can review them is to send them through the BZA because they are not eligible for the Plan Commission. What we do is we kind of run a fake process at that point. We put them through the same kinds of paces and we ask the same questions at the BZA that we would ask at the Plan Commission. But really it is more appropriate to have commercial properties that were meant to be part of the Gateway Corridor go through the Plan Commission. Staff would see that as a benefit for those properties. Also, I=m sure you are aware that immediately north of the parcel, north of CR200S and along Raceway Road and Six Points Road, there is a pending rezoning. It was scheduled for the December 3 hearing for 168 acres of singlefamily residential development. There is going to be a continuance request later related to that. But, obviously, that could eventually relate to this parcel here. As a matter of fact, in that rezoning request is a fiscal study that includes a portion of the parcel south of CR200S even though it is not part of the rezoning request. When that hearing comes up, I will explain that to you. There is a relationship between this rezoning and the pending residential rezoning to the north. I would be happy to answer any further questions that you have. Mr. Haase asked, is there anyone in the audience who have any questions or concerns about this rezoning request? Mr. George Gentry at 2325 Earlham Lane said my property goes right back to Hobbs, the first section back here. I want to know what Plainfield is going to do for me before I go along with you guys? We want it to stay residential. Everybody out there on Earlham does. There are 10 houses there on Earlham, five on each side of the street. I want water and sewer down there. If they would put that down my street, I would go along with it but I ain=t going to go along with it until they do it. They have come out there and they surveyed that four times when they put U.S. 40 in and you guys wouldn=t go along with it. Now I want you to do something for me. I want water and sewer down the street. Mr. Haase said I will address that to the Town Council members. that. Mr. Gentry said I=m not going to go along with anything until they do Mr. Haase asked, as far as what services are going to be put out there, I=m not aware of. Mr. Gentry said it is right on the corner. They ran a big sewer line all the way down through there and they wouldn=t come down the street with and the water too. We got gas but we don=t have no water and sewer. I have an old septic system and it could go bad any time. I ain=t going to stick a hundred thousand dollars in there on a new septic system and then Plainfield comes down through there with water and sewer and makes me hook up to it. Mr. Haase said I don=t believe you are required to be hooked up to it if they would run that down through there. As far as the plans on doing that, I don=t know of any and I can=t respond to that. Mr. Gentry said I have been there 14 years in March. That is the only thing that I need. I need something for me because as soon as you get it zoned and incorporated, you are going to shoot our taxes sky high. I know that. Mr. Daniel asked, could you come up here and show us where you are talking about? Mr. Gentry said it is the first piece here. Avon is right up against Hobbs there. Earlham has 10 houses on each side of the street. Mr. Haase said that is not involved in the annexation. Mr. Gentry said they are wanting that rezoned there. Mr. Haase said beside you but not your property. Mr. Daniel said your property is not in the annexation.!2

3 Mr. Gentry said they want to get us in on it. Mr. Daniel said it is not in this particular annexation, is that correct? Mr. Gentry said I guess but I=m not positive. Mr. Higbee said that would be out. I say that guardedly only because this was a hand-sketch but if it was sketched correctly, that would be out. Mr. Gentry said that is what I wanted to make sure of. Like I said, they came out there four times and I kept asking them about whether they were going to put water and sewer in. Mr. Haase said so we are of the understanding that your property really is not involved in this annexation or rezoning request. This really is not an annexation but a rezoning request. Mr. Daniel said it is a rezoning request. Mr. Gentry said they said annexation too. Mr. Higbee said that same parcel being rezoned was previously annexed and you are in neither one. Mr. Haase said you are just bordering properties involved. Mr. Daniel said you are north of the property that is before the board tonight. Mr. Gentry asked, aren=t they going to want to rezone it anyway? Mr. Haase said not tonight. Mr. Brandgard said relative to your questions on water and sewer I think that is a Town Council issue and if you are wanting water and sewer out there, you should come to the Town Engineer and discuss it with him. Mr. Gentry said he said that you would have to go down to U.S. 40 and hook up down there where it would go into the rest of the sewer. Mr. Brandgard said we put some big mains up there to serve the area and if you are needing it and the other people down there are needing it, you need to come to us. Mr. Gentry said I don=t know whether some of them have new septic. There are several that don=t. Like me, it was in there when I bought the property. I=ve been there 14 years and I know it is getting bad. I had friend of mine come out there and he put me in a drain from the house out to the tank and it was clean then. He checked the tank and everything but he said that it was an old system. It is just me and my wife there. If there was any more there, I would have to put in a bigger one because it only has about a tank, a big round one. It is just a small tank. I=ve got the money to put it in but I=m not going to spend it if I don=t have to. Mr. Haase asked, is there anyone else who would care to speak? I would just like to make everyone aware that this is a rezoning request. We do not do any rezoning here tonight. That is done at the Town Council meeting. We just give a recommendation from the Plan Commission to the Town Council for further rezoning. That would take place probably at the next Town Council meeting, which would be taking place the 10th, the second Monday in December. So, we are not doing any rezoning. We are merely here to initiate a recommendation to the Town Council from the Plan Commission. Mr. Win Jones at 2344 Earlham said I=m right across from Mr. Gentry. I=m strictly opposed to having any water or sewer lines put down our street. I=m the one with the new septic system. I didn=t receive any notification that this was going on. If Mr. Gentry hadn=t told me that it was going on, I wouldn=t have known it. I=m not sure but I don=t think that there is one or!3

4 two other people of the 10 families on that street that were notified that this meeting was going to come about. I was quite surprised to see the legal description of annexation. We just fought a battle with the County Plan Commission not to have us zoned commercial down through one mile on either side of the corridor that is supposed to go from I-70 to I-74. We asked that it not be done. It is a nice family neighborhood. Even the people that live on U.S. 40, those are like eight houses along there, these people do not want to be commercialized. It is very very light commercial now. We have a couple of car places down on Six Points. You have the dinner. You have one motel. The other two motels that were in the area have gone out of business. It is a very nice little neighborhood. People don=t even know that street is there. We don=t even have a street light on the corner or a sign either. I don=t think that I want the Plainfield Municipality furnishing any kind of utilities out there because the lady on the corner is 86 years old. They didn=t give her a dime to tear her front yard up and destroy her trees to put in a sewer line and a water line and a gas line. Both neighbors on either side received $1, to $1, for four-foot of their properties. She has a letter that says that they weren=t going to take any of her property. They took 10-foot of her property and didn=t give her a dime. She has no recourse. She is 86 years old and drawing Social Security. She has no income. How is she even going to sue anybody or ask for a remonstrance? I don=t think I want to deal with Plainfield. What gives you the legal right to just say let=s annex this? Just because there is a possibility that somebody might build something there and you can tax it? It is County property. Mr. Brandgard said it already has been annexed. This is just a rezoning. Mr. Jones asked, when was it annexed? How did you annex it legally? You can=t just go out and annex something without proper notification of the people that live in that area. I didn=t get any notification. I didn=t even get this letter. I abut right up against your annexation and your zoning. I was not notified. When did you start doing this? I read the Flyer every week and I didn=t see anything in there. That is the only communication I have with Plainfield except to go to Wal-Mart. I might go through your Town to go to Brazil but I don=t want anything to do with Plainfield. I don=t want anything to do with Avon. Another question, if you annex that area, where do the kids go to school? Mr. Brandgard said where they have always gone. Mr. Jones said that is an Avon School District. the Avon School District? How can you annex into Mr. Brandgard asked, why would you think you couldn=t? Mr. Jones said I guess all 10 of us can form a town and annex part of yours. Couldn=t we do that? Mr. Brandgard said no, you could form a town but you couldn=t annex part of another town. You asked about school districts. School districts have nothing to do with municipal borders. They are set by the State and they generally follow townships. On the consolidations that has kind of gone away but, again, the school districts have nothing to do with municipal borders. Mr. Jones said I understand that but what gives you the right to go out into the County and annex onto it? Mr. Brandgard said this annexation was done due to a request to annex. Mr. Jones said from whom? Mr. Brandgard said from property owners. You are blaming the City for taking land. The Town put in a sewer line out there but the Town did not put in a waterline or gas line so I don=t know who got on her property. Mr. Jones asked, where did the waterline come from? Mr. Carlucci said if it is up Raceway Road, it is Indianapolis Water.!4

5 Mr. Jones asked, who would we contact in regards to the sewer backing up? For the last two days we have had a terrible gas smell since the rains. It is not from my septic system. It is all new. It is since the construction has been done this summer. We have never had that before. It is a terrible gas smell right at the start of our street. When you come down U.S. 40, you will smell it sometimes as close as Raceway. It almost smells like propane but I know that it is sewer gas. Mr. Haase asked, could you show us where you are located? Mr. Jones said this is my property. You can have this. Nobody is disputing this because this is a big large area. This area is all houses along here. Mr. Carlucci said the issue is not annexation. The annexation is done. Mr. Jones said I know but why would you want to do the General Commercial on 10 houses and the diner? Why not do each parcel at a time when it is sold, as someone is wanting to buy it, and make it commercial so that you can approve it? If you make it a General Commercial, a tattoo parlor can come in there. That way you have to go through each one of the applications to make sure that you have the proper thing going in there. If you make this all General Commercial what is to prevent Dancer=s coming there? Mr. Carlucci said there are a lot of reasons that it couldn=t happen. One, is that if you look at the Zoning Ordinance, those long lots there don=t lend themselves to any kind of development on an individual basis because they are too narrow. They are too long. There is not enough setback. If you get the worse case scenario like Dancer=s that is already covered in our ordinance because we have a section on an orientated business ordinance. So, that is not likely to locate there. I don=t think a tattoo parlor is even a permitted use in the Town. It would be a Special Use or a Use Variance, something like that. I seem to recall that when we had the public hearing on the annexation back in late 1999, we had several residents out there, at least two or three, that said they wanted that property rezoned General Commercial. Nothing can really happen with the property unless there are three or four that go together at the same time because they are too narrow. Mr. Jones said that almost happened two years ago. A Toyota dealership working through a realtor got options on three of four properties out there and the fourth guy wanted $250, for his $80, home and they wouldn=t pay it so it fell through. Mr. Carlucci said the reason that the Town Council wanted to annex out that corridor is because our ordinance is specifically geared toward controlling the quality, the looks, lighting, landscaping, etc. everything to do with any kind of General Commercial out in that area. That is why the Town wanted to be out there. The uses that you saw going out there before were basically trailer sales and things like that. That is what you got under the last County ordinance. Mr. Cavanaugh said I would like to make another point too that the ordinance also provides specific requirements for development of commercial property as it abuts residential property. By having it annexed and brought into the Town and zoned appropriately, whatever that might be, there is actually more protection available by being part of the Town for the other abutting property owners that want to keep it residential. Mr. Jones said so you are telling me that I would have some protection if say a Toyota dealer or somebody like that bought four lots, which would be a little over four acres to build a car lot on. And he is shining lights all night long so I would have some recourse to make him shut the lights off at night? I can=t even get the airport to give me any noise abatement at 4:30 or 5:00 in the morning. My window shook so hard this morning that I sat straight up in my bed and I live on the north side of U.S. 40, not the south side of U.S. 40. Mr. Carlucci said I think everybody in Town noticed it last night. must have been the weather conditions because it was horrible. It!5

6 Mr. Cavanaugh said there are opportunities to provide for more protection between commercial and residential property when it is zoned appropriately. In my opinion the first big advantage to you, as being a County resident, is the fact that the property that adjoins you is now in the Town of Plainfield. Because you wouldn=t have necessarily the same protections if it had remained part of the County and was subject to their County development ordinance. Now whether you have everything exactly the way that you want it we can=t guarantee that but there is a Lighting Control Ordinance, Landscape Ordinance, Screening Ordinance and we have the opportunity to impose sound controls and other things like that. The interface between commercial and residential is an important thing that we consider all of the time. You may not see it that way exactly but it is probably more to your advantage to have it that way. Mr. Carlucci said we actually face this issue all of the time on the part of U.S. 40 that is developing now because on the north side of U.S. 40, as you go through Plainfield, as you go by the car dealerships and Taco Bell, they are all abutting against residential. Mr. Haase said I can relate for the Board of Zoning Appeals on Smith Road that goes beside Rally=s and Goodwill in the last five years there have been two parcels of land come before the Board of Zoning Appeals for variances or to be rezoned. There have been two parcels, one behind Rally=s and then one farther back behind Goodwill and both of those have stayed residential. Even though they are in the Town the Town=s boards have decided that piece-mealing properties one at a time back through there is not the way to turn that into General Commercial. They greatly respect the people=s right to have the neighborhood back there and continue to make it residential. Just recently on the Board of Zoning Appeals one was denied. Mr. Jones said but it is a question of time before the board changes and someone else=s attitude changes. I=m probably going to be retired and gone before it happens anyway but I appreciate your time gentlemen. Mr. David Bergman said I live on the same street. I live about two doors up from there. I would just like to reiterate some of the concerns that my neighbors have. I don=t really know what General Commercial means but I have a family and there are a lot of families there. What type of businesses can come in? That is my interest and how is that going to effect my quality of life? What is it going to do to my real estate value? Even though I know I=m not in your Town I=m a neighbor so it is an interest to me. I just want to reiterate that. Can there be an automotive place in there or some kind of machine shop making noise? I like to sleep so I wanted to mention that. I know you are talking about adding to your inventory so I assume that this is going to go from an Agricultural to Commercial. I know it is prime real estate down there. I would like to look into it and see what other kind of concerns for respecting people there are but unless it is written down it really doesn=t mean a whole lot. Mr. Cavanaugh said it is written down in our ordinance. Mr. Bergman said that is basically where I=m coming from. By the way on U.S. 40 that is the Plainfield water, it is a 10-inch main so that comes through there. Mr. Haase said I think he was referencing Raceway Road. Mr. Bergman said as a matter of fact, they even put a little stub there for going into Earlham if something should grow there. So, that gets the rumor going of what is coming in here? Mr. Carlucci said actually we do that in case you need the water. Mr. Bergman said it is a good size. That would supply a lot of good pressure I imagine. So, that is pretty much what I was looking at. And also how is it going to effect the real estate for the residential if you get some sort of businesses coming in there? Obviously, there is going to be some sort of impact. So, that is really basically my concern. It is an opportunity for you guys being in there and I realize this place is going to develop but we!6

7 live there too. I would appreciate your consideration when you are looking at that and how it goes in and I would definitely like to see what goes in there not knowing what exactly General Commercial means. If somebody wanted to buy the whole place and put a nice big Hyatt, I would be happy but I doubt that is going to happen. I just wanted to mention that and there are a lot of people who basically want to maintain their quality of life. Mr. Haase said here is a listing of what is allowed in General Commercial. Mr. Bergman said tire and auto service, automobile repair-major and minor. That means you can have some big trucks in there with a lot of air hammers. Restaurants, groceries. It goes back an acre. They are acre lots and they go back several hundred feet so it is going to get right in there and it is going to increase traffic. You have a hotel in there and hospital, dairy, bakery. It looks like light industry. A billiard room, a billiard hall, bowling alleys. Mr. Carlucci said some of those are permitted and some of those are a Special Use. Mr. Bergman said I was just basically am looking at what kind of stuff would be coming in there. Mr. Haase said I think you can answer that by saying anything from the Andy Mohr Ford or golf on down to the Rally=s. Those are all of the new items that have been put in and the types of buildings and structures that are in place there are built to the Town=s ordinances and I guess you would say specifications. The lighting is always an issue. Mr. Higbee said abutting residential is a half of a foot candle. Mr. Haase said that is very very little. Mr. Bergman asked, how tall are the posts? Mr. Haase said you would be able to see the lights but the illumination of your adjacent neighborhood would not be allowed to filter over. Mr. Carlucci said a half of foot candle is really two or three matches struck together. Mr. Haase said it couldn=t be over a 40-watt bulb or something like that. Mr. Bergman said I just want to mention my concerns about that and I hope you do take that into consideration in what businesses do come in. I know that the area is going to be developed but it is residential for us. Mr. Haase said nearly three years ago when we instituted these new ordinances, landscaping between residential and any type of business, General Commercial, Industrial, Office or anything was a major concern to the Plan Commission. We went to a great extent to get all types of what we call levels of landscaping. I=m sure between General Commercial and a neighborhood there has to be a Level 4, which is actually quite huge in the way of landscaping. It was a big issue I know for myself because that is where we hear all of the concerns from. We want to help take care of our citizens so there would have to be a lot of landscaping to the back side of their property to the first adjacent home site there before anything can go in there in the way of business. Mr. Bergman said but there is nothing in writing on it. Mr. Brandgard said there is. Mr. Bergman said I went to the corridor and from my understanding the corridor where that road is going to go through isn=t really even set yet. It can kind of go left or right to a degree. Mr. Haase said the corridor has nothing to do with the Town. We don=t!7

8 set that corridor. The Town is not in charge of that intersection. We own property around it but, correct me if I=m wrong, we are not setting where that road goes. We are going to develop around it when it gets set. We may be able to suggest what we have concerns about it at that time but it will get put where another board wants to. Mr. Bergman said by doing this by going General Commercial, especially for Hobbs Nursery, which that is a good piece of land right there, that is definitely going to eliminate the residential aspect of that large section of that section there. The front along U.S. 40, like the strip businesses, or the strip malls or whatever they are. But then going back into the deeper part of that section, I assume the attempt is to get the Hobbs part of that property, that is going to open that up to commercial development compared to any kind of residential. That is going to be a drastic change from the AG. Mr. Haase said that is definitely true. It is very similar to what has happened along SR267. You can take the Marsh Supermarket. Even though it has been there for quite some time that was all Agricultural and then Marsh Supermarket went in and then some very nice homes went in behind that. You have Bank One and then you have some apartments and then you have the Creekside with some nice homes behind that. We have the hospital going up in front of those and just across the street, across Stanley Road there are going to be some more nice houses that Chuck Mead is just starting to put the addition in. That is a very similar corridor and we have some mixed uses in there and some relatively expensive homes going in to some areas abutting to the General Commercial areas. Mr. Bergman asked, what is the strip on U.S. 40 zoned now? Mr. Haase said it is my understanding that it is Agricultural. Mr. Bergman asked, even where the houses are and the diner, etc.? Mr. Haase said yes. The reason that would be is because when the Town annexed it, that is how it was brought in. Mr. Brandgard said I know there was a lot of talk about the Hobbs property going Industrial at one time and Commercial is certainly a better use than Industrial out there from a housing standpoint. Mr. Bergman said by going General Commercial you have eliminated the duplex. By putting this General Commercial in your intent is to develop retail businesses. Those people are going to maximize the use of their land and they are going to take it right up to the chainlink fence that is going to abut up to the neighbor. Mr. Haase said they are going to have to have the landscaping. And the Town in many cases where Commercial has adjoined an older residential area we have had an abated area that they cannot touch and they have to have landscaping. They can=t have lighting and they can=t have a parking lot. land? Mr. Bergman asked, is the abated area a certain percentage of their total Mr. Haase said no. It is usually a footage strip along the perimeter area, 50 feet out. I=m just making a statement but we have some of those. Mr. Brandgard said if you look even in our warehousing and industrial area where that abuts up to a housing area, you will see usually a mound type with trees and shrubs and bushes to build a barrier between the two uses. Mr. Haase said they have to be maintenanced. Mr. Bergman said thank you for your time. Mr. Win Jones said when you were talking about lights, on the south side of U.S. 40 at Earlham Lane is the biggest and most beautiful billboard you ever saw. I don=t need any night lights in my house anymore. I=m over 600 foot away.!8

9 Mr. Haase said that billboard was put up before it came into the Town and the Town had no control over what lighting is out there. We had nothing to do with what it is there now. So, we can=t control areas out of our jurisdiction. Mr. Jones asked, when did you annex it? Mr. Carlucci said it was late Mr. Jones said that is a brand new one. Mr. Bergman asked, is that grandfathered? Mr. Haase said unfortunately, yes. Mr. Higbee said let me just explain real quickly that under our ordinance you wouldn=t be able to have a billboard within 600 feet of the Gateway Corridor. So, if somebody put one up, I will be out there looking for it. It is not permitted. Mr. Richard Hatcher said I live in Medallion Meadows at Bradbury Driver. I=m a little confused. First of all have I been annexed into Plainfield? Mr. Haase said no. Mr. Hatcher said because this says notice of annexation on this letter that I got. Mr. Carlucci said I have to apologize. I should have just put the legal description in there without the annexation on the top of it. I just used the same legal that we used for the annexation and I didn=t realize that was on there and that is what is confusing some people. But you are not annexed. You are an abutting property owner and that is why you were noticed. Mr. Hatcher said so what we are talking about is all of the property along U.S. 40, which would be close to my neighborhood. Since I=m back in the residential area it probably won=t really affect me that much. Mr. Carlucci said no and that area under the County was zoned C-2 before we had it and it is almost the same thing that is our General Commercial. Mr. Daniel swore in Ms. April Franklin. Ms. April Franklin at 3162 E. Main said I=m in the area to be zoned General Commercial and before we did get annexed into Plainfield we had paid money to be General Commercial and got it taken away from us. So, we are pleased that it is going back to what we originally wanted. The other thing I know my neighbor to the left of me is already running a business out of his property, a trucking business. So, there are already businesses working in that area that they may not know about. I know my other neighbor did not get his letter about the zoning because he has renters in his house but he came to me and told me that he definitely is for the rezoning. He, along with my neighbor on the other side, that is leasing to the trucking company are all hoping to get our lots grouped together and sold to some bigger company. Eventually all of Washington Street will be probably zoned commercial because of the districting of where it is. We are looking forward to that, as a financial gain, for us who were looking ahead to buy property on Washington Street. My only other question is I also own land just south of what they consider Old National Road U.S. 40, which used to be the railroad right-of-way and we have a body shop sitting on CR251S. From what I can see from the picture it looks like just a percentage or a small portion of that property will be included, is that correct? Mr. Carlucci said that is correct. Ms. Franklin asked, do you know how many feet from that road will become General Commercial?!9

10 Mr. Carlucci said if I had Jeff Banning, the surveyor here I could tell you exactly. I think it cuts just to the front of the property a little bit, not very deep. Ms. Franklin said but basically I=m grandfathered because I have been there so long. Mr. Carlucci said that would matter because you are still in the County. Whatever is in it=s not enough for you to do anything with anyway because it is the frontage of your property and not the rear. Ms. Franklin asked, it shouldn=t affect my business as I=m working now should it? Mr. Carlucci said no. Mr. Haase asked, do you have any knowledge of what her land is zoned now? Mr. Carlucci said if I had to guess, it would be C-2 but that is just guessing. Ms. Franklin said it seemed like when everything got annexed into Plainfield, it did go AG for like everything. Houses that were already there like I=m living in went to AG so I=m not really zoned for living in my own house. For the body shop that is on the south side of the road if it is AG, we are definitely not really zoned for that but we have been there long enough to be grandfathered. Mr. Haase said you are classified as a legal non-conforming use in both places. Ms. Franklin said most of the people that I know, the lady on the corner, is one of the people that is really not wanting to become Commercial but everybody from her house to Six Points Road or CR1050E I know is wanting Commercial. Most of them are already Commercial or they are like me and living in a home that they are hoping to go Commercial. As a business owner myself, I may not move out to sell to somebody else. I may want to transfer part of my business, probably not the body shop, because the neighbors would have a fit about that, but to have some other sort of business that I would own on my own property and be zoned correct for that. So, that is all that I have to say. Mr. Haase asked, Mr. Higbee did you have a copy of the list of who we sent notices to? Mr. Higbee said yes, I do. Mr. Haase said it is my understanding that notifications should go to the property owner and not to the renters. Mr. Carlucci said we went to the County and pulled those off of their records. We still have somewhat of a problem with the County never catching up with the addressing. I don=t think they got caught up with their addressing that they did when they made it East Highway U. S. 40. Even though it wasn=t annexed into the Town the Post Office asked us to change all of the addresses out there to East Main Street, Plainfield. Because we were thinking that you were on the east side of Indianapolis. Ms. Franklin said people were thinking that we were on the east side and it was terrible trying to get your mail. The neighbors that were not informed were John and Marsha. Mr. Carlucci asked, do they live right on U.S. 40? Ms. Franklin said they live right on U.S. 40 right next to me. They are using that as a rental house. Mr. Cavanaugh asked, so they don=t occupy that house? Ms. Franklin said no.!10

11 Mr. Haase said their name would still be on the record. Mr. Brandgard said it would have been delivered to that house. Ms. Franklin said the renters probably discarded the notice. Mr. Haase said there is a substantial list of people that we notified. I apologize that not everybody feels that they did get notified. The requirements on notification is 600 feet deep or two property owners, whichever comes first. Mr. Carlucci said we sent out close to 100 notices on this. We also put the legal notice in the newspaper, what would be today=s weekend Flyer. We try to catch it both ways and we have people who also know about it by word of mouth. Ms. Franklin said they are not in the area to receive a Flyer because they now live in Greenfield. So, that would be a problem for them to see it in the Flyer. Mr. Haase asked, Mr. Higbee do you have anything to close with? Mr. Higbee said no. I would be happy to answer any questions or if any of the people in the audience want to understand more about the Town=s Zoning Ordinance and how it would work should this be rezoned Commercial, they can come in and talk to me downstairs. Mr. Haase said it might even be a good thing if we could set a time where a lot of the people that are in here tonight could come and also bring their neighbors. Or if we could do a special meeting and do it all at one time with a group of people to let them know what our ordinance will help assist our homeowners with. Mr. Higbee said if there is an interest in that, I would be happy to be part of that. Mr. Haase said if there are no further questions or comments from the audience, we will now close the public portion of this hearing. Is there any discussion or questions from any board members? Mr. McPhail said without a doubt I=m the only Washington Township resident on this board or on any of the Town boards I believe and this property is in Washington Township. It is in the Avon School District and the Avon School District is under tremendous pressure with the residential development in Washington Township. It is putting a tremendous strain on the school system and on us as taxpayers. I think it is extremely important that we get some development in Washington Township that helps balance that tax base. The zoning that we are talking about here will develop. This property will develop in time along U.S. 40. The north/south corridor is going in there. I know there is probably some people here tonight that have some older properties that they currently may not feel the tax burden like some of us that have newer properties. But I can assure that when this market base assessment goes in and people are paying taxes on market value, there is going to be a shock throughout this County and throughout this State. When you read 13% or 8%, that is an average number that they are looking at. There are people that are going to be looking at 200 and 300% increase in their taxes. Washington Township needs some help to offset the residential base that continues to grow there and put the burden on the residential property owners. This is a small step in the right direction for a very large problem as far as I=m concerned. Mr. Cavanaugh said one thing that Mr. Higbee points out in his Staff comments is about the overall inventory of the GC property in the Town. In recognition of Mr. McPhail=s acute awareness of the need for tax burden sharing in Washington Township, not to discount that, but I would think that it would be incumbent upon the board to be good stewards of development for the Town to find a way to become aware of the inventories that we have available for development. Not that we want to be market analysts but I think if we could find a way to help guide us with some decision-making along those lines, it!11

12 would be a good thing. How it would happen I can=t sit here and make a recommendation on that but I think it would be a good thing for us and it would probably be a good thing for the planning staff, as well, to be able to give us additional guidance as we consider this type of growth in what will probably continue to happen. Having said that I also think, especially along the U.S. 40 corridor, that the recognition of the great amount of the GC activity out there is well served by this request. But I would also ask that the Plan Commission and other boards that might review other development plans in this area that we are considering look for some imaginative uses in other types of development from people who will come to develop it here especially where it abuts the existing residential. Just because we may accept this here this evening that shouldn=t preclude us from accepting more creative ides that become a good match up against a residential area. So, those are just a couple of comments. I think we can do a lot with that. There is a lot of property out there. Certainly, there is definitely a need along U.S. 40 for a continuation of GC. Certainly, there is some advantage to be given to all Washington Township by increasing the tax base out there regardless of what it might do to the Town of Plainfield. Those are just a couple of comments. Mr. Haase said if there are no further comments form any board members, the Chair would accept a motion to act on this recommendation to the Town Council. Mr. McPhail made a motion to certify the zone map amendment request, RZ as filed by the Town of Plainfield to the Town Council with a favorable recommendation. Second by Mr. Thibo. Roll call vote called. Mr. Thibo - yes Mr. Matrana - yes Mr. McPhail - yes Mr. Brandgard - yes Mr. Cavanaugh - yes Mr. Ward - yes Mr. Haase - yes 7-ayes, 0-opposed, 0-absent. Motion carried. OLD BUSINESS/NEW BUSINESS Continuance request for the Hobbs/Precedent project Mr. Higbee aid Mr. Tuohy is here to represent the Hobbs/Precedent project. That is on your December 3 Plan Commission agenda, which you haven=t received yet. You are well aware of the project because there have been a couple of continuances before. What happened this past week is I called Mr. Tuohy to kind of do a last minute double check on the status of things before preparing a report for your Plan Commission coming up on Monday. I found out that on November 20 when I faxed him my latest set of comments on the project his latest revisions had come in about a week prior to that. Then I responded in writing. Unfortunately, unbeknownst to me he never got the fax that I sent him. I had 12 items that we felt if you are going to go forward, you at least need to be aware of these things. We then went to our fax logs and found out that the fax commenced but didn=t complete so we can verify that he never did receive the fax of our Staff comments. Those were pretty important items that probably would have bogged down the Plan Commission meeting had it come to the hearing on December 3. So, based on that they are here to ask for another continuance so that they would have some time to respond to those items. Mr. Cavanaugh asked, when was this item first scheduled for review? Mr. Higbee said I know that this would be the third continuance request. I don=t recall exact dates but it would have been a couple of Plan Commission meetings ago. Mr. Carlucci said this is kind of our fault. Mr. Higbee said it is to the extent that I watched the fax go through the machine but I didn=t run a confirmation on it after it went through. It is our fault, yes.!12

13 Mr. Tuohy said I called Mr. Daniel as soon as I got off the phone with Mr. Higbee and I said we sent out a lot of notices to people. Rather than to have a lot of people show up, I wasn=t assuming that you would grant the continuance, but I sent a letter saying that I was going to ask for a continuance because of these additional items. That letter went out yesterday. I had to make sure that it went out yesterday so that they would get it prior to Monday=s hearing. I have gotten calls already today saying that people did get them. I can=t say that everybody got them but surely before Monday they will get a letter that says that I was coming here tonight to ask for a continuance until the February 4 meeting. Having been here before I didn=t want to ask again so that is why I asked for that amount of time. Mr. Haase said I think that is a great idea. Mr. Daniel said when Mr. Tuohy called me yesterday, he indicated that he would be willing, after this meeting this evening, if a continuance was granted, to go ahead and notify everybody that a continuance was granted and try to give as much notice to as many people that they could. He and I talked about the time that is short and he just received word that there had been a problem that occurred so he and I talked about the possibility, instead of waiting to see what the board would do tonight, to go ahead and send a letter out yesterday telling them that he was going to be here and ask for a continuance. So, that at least there would be two more lead days on that notification rather than waiting until Friday not knowing whether the board would grant a continuance. If a continuance were granted, by the time the letter went out on Friday, there was some concern about getting it on a Monday so he was willing to send out yesterday a letter that I have a copy of here. He sent me a copy telling everybody that he was going to be here tonight and ask for a continuance so that he could get two extra days of lead time on it. I thought that was a very fair thing to do. Mr. Haase asked, is there anyone here in relationship to this? Being none, the people that got the letter, obviously, responded to you and did not bother to show up tonight. If this is granted, obviously, we would all like for this to be the last continuance. I don=t think there is any question about that from anybody and I know that you would be willing to send another letter and I don=t believe that would have to be certified. This last one that you sent out was not certified and they got it so we will take standard mail the next time and the Town also to republish at the appropriate time in the newspaper in the legal notices. We will do that ourselves. So, I think those two requirements for both parties need to be adhered to if the continuance is granted. Mr. McPhail said based on those comments and qualifications I would move that we grant the continuance until the February 4 Plan Commission meeting. Second by Mr. Ward. Motion carried. Removal of the Saratoga Claymont Playground Mr. Higbee reviewed the history behind the removal of the Claymont playground and how it was to be part of the amenities when the PUD was originally approved. Those present on behalf of the homeowners association that removed the equipment were Ms. Lana Pedigo, President of the homeowners association and a resident of 4511 Redcliff South Lane; Mr. Ron Babcough, resident at 5990 Redcliff North and the homeowners association=s attorney Mr. Matthew Burkert with his office located at 97 S. Washington St., Danville, IN. The reason the homeowners association removed the equipment was due to the following reasons: C C C C C Equipment was within 20 to 30 feet of a retention pond, which was a concern for the safety of young children. Liability issues. Problems with teenagers congregating in the area and tearing up the equipment. There have been 40 police runs this past year due to the problems with teenagers. A 13-year old broke his pelvis while on the equipment.!13

14 It was the concern of the commission that the Plan Commission approves developments with certain amenities for certain densities. When those amenities get disturbed, that changes the whole thing that was approved. When the Plan Commission approves a development to be a certain way, it is to stay that way and is not to be arbitrarily changed. Mr. Cavanaugh recommended that the homeowners association consider an alternate use to take it from a physical activity area to maybe a park area with a couple of picnic tables, benches, etc. so that there is still an amenity available for the residents. He also suggested that the playground equipment that goes in from any responsible developer should meet the Consumer Product Safety Council Guidelines. There are standards that can be specified to be built to and he suggested that this to be something considered in a separate setting because they would continue to request these amenities. He recommended that they be responsive to the representatives of this small community that are saying that a situation that the Plan Commission thought would to be a good thing is not a good thing necessarily. And that he didn=t think they should put themselves in a situation where they force them to do something that was originally approved just because it was approved. He believed that they needed to consider the reality of how they have to conduct and to be a part of everyone=s lives out there and help them with what works best. If their constituents are saying that they don=t really need this type of amenity and it is more of a liability and more of a problem than a benefit, then he believes they should to be open to other alternatives. The issue was concluded when Mr. Daniel recommended that the homeowners association have a meeting to get a feel of what they want to do. Afterwards they are to call Mr. Higbee and tell him of their decision and work with him. Mr. Daniel recommended that If it was necessary, they could petition the Town to ask to amend this plat. Plainfield Comprehensive Plan Mr. Higbee said I don=t have a lot more to say. I just wanted to get this out in front of you for some discussion because I think it is timely. The last item was the comp plan on the agenda. I gave you all a color copy just for you to have for your own personal file. You could put it with your Zoning Ordinance if you keep that at home just to reference it as cases come up. If you keep anything out of that package, you might want to keep that. But I was told by the Town Council some time ago to go ahead with the comp plan for Mr. Carlucci and I need to sit down and hash out what we think would to be best as far as how that should go forward and when it should go forward in phasing it and things like that. But you are also aware that Mr. Carlucci prepared a year ago an RFP for the Town Center City plan that he has been kind of holding onto. I know that he has done some revisions for it. I had made a comment, Mr. Carlucci didn=t happen to be at that Town Council meeting, but I made a comment that maybe we could wrap those together in one project and get it out by the end of the year. Then Mr. Carlucci and I were talking about it recently and he said how are you going to handle that with Staff and things like that? I said that is a good point and the more I thought about it I thought about alternatives about how you would get it done. How you would phase out things. I=m reversing myself I guess. So, Mr. Carlucci had made the suggestion why don=t we go ahead with the Town Center and RFP that I have already got. Maybe it needs to be tweaked a little but we could get it out there and get it going. And then at some future point we do the comp plan. What I have kind of come up with in the past week, and I hadn=t had a chance to talk to Mr. Carlucci about it yet, is maybe that makes sense. Do that piece first, it is smaller and it can feed into the comp plan but the comp plan still, not everybody agrees with this, but probably most of us thinks the whole comp plan needs to go forward. I want to do the project to be perfectly honest with you. What I would suggest is while that Town Center RFP is going out the door, whatever date you guys set for when you want it to happen, go ahead and let me prepare a request for qualifications, not an RFP but an RFQ for the overall comp plan and send it out the door. We will just go ahead and start evaluating the people that we might want to work with on the overall comp plan. The overall comp plan probably could take a year. The Town Center plan will take less time than that. So, If we get the RFQ going now, then maybe it starts becoming a project in late 2002 and gets done in early 2003 or something like that. I wanted to throw that out!14