UNITED STATES ARMY CENTER OF MILITARY HISTORY INTERVIEW OF. MSGR ANTHONY R. FRONTIERO North Morgue, Ground Zero 126-ORH-I-035 NEIT

Transcription

1 UNITED STATES ARMY CENTER OF MILITARY HISTORY INTERVIEW OF MSGR ANTHONY R. FRONTIERO North Morgue, Ground Zero -ORH-I-0 NEIT--0 CONDUCTED BY SFC DAN MORIARTY The Center of Military History AT DMORT October, 0 TAPE TRANSCRIPTION

2 0 P R O C E E D I N G S SFC MORIARTY: (Inaudible) and SGT DELUCA: SGT Joseph Deluca from the th Military History. SFC MORIARTY: And this interview is taking place at -- this is the North Morgue? MSGR FRONTIERO: I'm not sure what you'd call it. It's the only one I know. SFC MORIARTY: Okay. Well, there's two. There's north and south. This is the north, right outside of what were formerly the World Trade Center towers. MSGR FRONTIERO: The World Financial Center. SFC MORIARTY: Oh, we're right outside the World Financial Center? MSGR FRONTIERO: Right. SFC MORIARTY: And this interview is with Monsignor MSGR FRONTIERO: Anthony Frontiero. SFC MORIARTY: Would you spell your name phonetically? MSGR FRONTIERO: F-r-o-n-t-i-e-r-o.

3 0 SFC MORIARTY: Okay. Now for the legal disclaimer. I understand that the tape and transcripts resulting from this oral history will belong to the U.S. Army to be used in any manner deemed in the best interest of the U.S. Army, as determined by the Chief of Military History. I understand it's subject to security classification restrictions, I will be given an opportunity to review the resulting transcript in order to clarify or expand my original thoughts. The Army will provide me with a copy of the edited transcript for my own use subject to classification restrictions. Do you have any conditions you -- MSGR FRONTIERO: No. SFC MORIARTY: And if at any point you do, we can come back to this. MSGR FRONTIERO: Oh, yes. SFC MORIARTY: Okay. Could you put your name here? MSGR FRONTIERO: Sure. SFC MORIARTY: I was wondering what the

4 0 abbreviation for Monsignor was. MSGR FRONTIERO: It's okay if I abbreviate it, right? SFC MORIARTY: Yeah. Not a problem. And your duty station is -- you're assigned to the World -- MSGR FRONTIERO: The United Nations Embassy. SFC MORIARTY: Okay. If you could just sort of squeeze that in there. MSGR FRONTIERO: Okay. Right here? SFC MORIARTY: Yeah. MSGR FRONTIERO: Okay. SGT DELUCA: So do you have diplomatic status? MSGR FRONTIERO: Only in the United Nations but no, I don't have a diplomatic passport. SGT DELUCA: Well, you don't need it. MSGR FRONTIERO: No. SFC MORIARTY: And if you have no conditions, you initial there. MSGR FRONTIERO: None. And sign? SFC MORIARTY: And sign right here and date it there.

5 0 MSGR FRONTIERO: Okay. (Recess.) SFC MORIARTY: You were just called away. MSGR FRONTIERO: Right. SFC MORIARTY: And a family came down? MSGR FRONTIERO: No. Actually the workers found a black bag, a duffel bag with some material in it and they thought there were some body parts attached to it, but they found nothing. That was what I was -- SFC MORIARTY: Okay. MSGR FRONTIERO: You need me? Yes, they do need me. SFC MORIARTY: Okay. That's not a problem. We'll wait. (Recess.) MSGR FRONTIERO: It probably belonged to one of the firefighters. It was a duffel bag with tools in it and they thought that there still may be some kind of body part attached to it or somewhere around it, but they're searching it now, but they don't think there's any -- they're calling the remains bio. If they see

6 0 there's bio there, that means body part. So at the moment we'll just wait until they call me again. SFC MORIARTY: Okay. Now, is that a routine practice? MSGR FRONTIERO: Yes. What happens here is that they bring in the bodies or the body parts, as it were, and typically what happens is if a body is recovered or a body part and it's identifiable as a police officer or a firefighter, everyone that's here in uniform goes down to the site, they drape the remains in an American flag and they have a procession here, like a funeral procession. They treat everyone with such dignity and care, you know, particularly if they're a firefighter or a police officer. And then what happens is they bring the body or the part -- the remains into the next tent and they identify it to the best knowledge that they can, if it's possible. They do a sample for DNA and then the priest is called in to bless the remains. SGT DELUCA: And do you give them like last rites or --

7 0 MSGR FRONTIERO: No. We do not give last rites because we can only give last rites for a person who is alive. SGT DELUCA: Oh. I didn't know that. MSGR FRONTIERO: We do a blessing, prayers for the dead and we bless the remains but we do not give the sacrament of last rites. You cannot do that after a person has died. SGT DELUCA: I didn't realize that. SFC MORIARTY: Now, the other thing -- earlier you had said that maybe it was a family coming down and you were going to pray with them. MSGR FRONTIERO: Right. SFC MORIARTY: Is that also what's happening here? MSGR FRONTIERO: The families don't come here to this point. Before, when I went to the hospital and early on I stopped at the armory to be with those people because in the immediate -- immediately after the incident, they were gathering in hospitals, the armory, especially if their loved ones were missing. SGT DELUCA: That's the Park Avenue Armory?

8 0 MSGR FRONTIERO: Right. Exactly. So I went there one day and spent a few hours there with the people and so forth, just to talk and pray with them as they waited. Here it's a little bit different. We're waiting to receive and bless the body remains. And there are times when it's more busy than others, naturally. Like this morning they -- I was told they found quite a few body parts that they were bringing in, so it was quite busy this morning here for the priest on duty. The priests are rotating every six hours here. SFC MORIARTY: Really? MSGR FRONTIERO: Two priests every six hours. SGT DELUCA: Now, you're all volunteers? MSGR FRONTIERO: Yes. This is Father -- Father Paul has come from Rochester, New York. SGT DELUCA: How are you doing, Father? FATHER PAUL: Good. SGT DELUCA: You came all the way down from Rochester? FATHER PAUL: I did. I came down today.

9 0 MSGR FRONTIERO: That's Dan and that's Joe. SFC MORIARTY: Pleasure to meet you, sir. MSGR FRONTIERO: Father Paul is going to be here for four days. He's a retired priest and is volunteering his time to help here and so we're a team and we came down at :00 and then we'll leave at midnight. SFC MORIARTY: And another team -- MSGR FRONTIERO: Another team will come in. hours a day there's always -- there are two priests. SFC MORIARTY: And how about Rabbis and ministers? Are they also involved in this or -- MSGR FRONTIERO: I'm not sure. FATHER PAUL: I'm not sure, either, but I would imagine so. MSGR FRONTIERO: I think, though, that if they're really kind of glad that the Catholic priests are here only because we wear identifiable signs, the Roman collar. I mean, in other religious traditions where they wouldn't have this, they're not as visible and so forth. But they like that sign. They were telling us

10 0 0 today during the briefing that it really is a consolation to see us and that's why they encourage us to walk around. So Father Paul just went for a walk and then later on I'll go for a walk. SFC MORIARTY: Now do people on the site approach you and talk to you while you're out there? FATHER PAUL: I go up to them and if they want to talk, they come up. SGT DELUCA: How about you? Now, you were here the first day -- MSGR FRONTIERO: But even -- well, let me see. Shortly afterwards. And I spent a lot of time at the hospital and went to the armory the one afternoon. The Lennox Hill Hospital (phonetic) next to the place where I live. SFC MORIARTY: Right. MSGR FRONTIERO: And the -- I have noticed that a lot of the workers here come up and say thank you for being here. Just a couple of guys, before you came here, very appreciative, and said thank you so much, it

11 0 means a lot that we see the priests here. And so that's gratifying. Although we're more glad that you guys are here, really, and that they're here to do this work because that really is the more important. SGT DELUCA: That happened to me the other night at our hotel. There were a couple of firefighters. They must have just had a meeting. They were from Ladder 0. You know, they had the patch on. And as I'm walking by, one of them reached out and grabbed me around the shoulder and said thanks for being here. And, you know, I feel like so inadequate because those are the guys that go to the front line, you know. We're down here in support, you know, and our job is to collect and document so that, you know, hopefully this never happens again but if it does, there's an institutional knowledge. Now, that institutional knowledge from your (inaudible) -- now, when abouts -- how did you find out about this so that you can volunteer to come here? MSGR FRONTIERO: As soon as the terrorist attack happened, shortly thereafter, I think three days later,

12 0 we got a fax from the Archdiocese of New York. All the priests in the area. I don't know if you did up in Rochester. FATHER PAUL: No. No. MSGR FRONTIERO: But we did here, those of us -- said an urgent appeal that you volunteer your time to go to the hospitals and the armory and also call the Archdiocese to volunteer for morgue duty down at the site. And actually, they had an excellent response from the clergy because I would have liked to have done this more often so far but there's a good number of guys that are just willing to come down. And hours a day there's always two Catholic priests here. So that's really great. And that's how I got involved in it, because of this urgent appeal that came out to all the clergy. SFC MORIARTY: Have you been over to the family center at all? MSGR FRONTIERO: No, I have not been to the family center. SFC MORIARTY: Do you know if there's other clergy

13 0 over there? MSGR FRONTIERO: I imagine there are but I don't know how that's actually working. Maybe -- I think that may be where a lot of other denominations are being called in because the -- perhaps there's more of an association of religious denomination going on there than there would be here. I think the Catholic clergy are much more recognizable here, so that that's what they're -- that's my sense. I don't know. SFC MORIARTY: You had a question, I thought, from the -- okay. Never mind. And the process is you basically wait in this tent. MSGR FRONTIERO: Right. We wait here. FATHER PAUL: Yeah. Yeah. SFC MORIARTY: And as you're needed they come from next door? MSGR FRONTIERO: Exactly. Yesterday or the day before they found many bodies of -- SGT DELUCA: Yeah. We were here that day and they said they found an elevator? MSGR FRONTIERO: Yeah.

14 0 SGT DELUCA: And going back to what you were talking about before, the respect, and I notice that everybody came to attention and presented arms -- MSGR FRONTIERO: Yes. SGT DELUCA: -- as they came up. And even today, as -- we were in Battery Park today and then we came to (inaudible) site, and as we were leaving traffic was stopped allowing the ambulance out, and again the same thing. Everybody came to attention (inaudible). MSGR FRONTIERO: Yeah. SGT DELUCA: So, I mean, it's -- were you on that day? MSGR FRONTIERO: No. I wasn't here on that day. No. SGT DELUCA: About how many times have you been here? MSGR FRONTIERO: This is my first night here and I've never come to this site yet before today. SGT DELUCA: Where have you been before? MSGR FRONTIERO: Just the hospital and the armory. SGT DELUCA: Okay.

15 0 MSGR FRONTIERO: That's where -- then I volunteered and then they just called me for this tonight. SFC MORIARTY: Were you at the missing persons -- where they've got the missing persons -- MSGR FRONTIERO: On th Street. SFC MORIARTY: th. MSGR FRONTIERO: Exactly. I went there the Saturday after the attack and -- SFC MORIARTY: So it must have been an incredible scene. MSGR FRONTIERO: Oh, yeah. Lots and lots of people and very emotional. SGT DELUCA: How do you deal with that? I mean, doesn't -- MSGR FRONTIERO: It affects me personally, you know. I have -- I had a few sleepless nights since this started and -- but I basically talk to the priest that I live with at home about it. That helps, you know. But I found at first going there, going back and watching the news, it made -- so saturated by the news.

16 0 They never -- that's all you can get on any channel. And I found at the beginning I couldn't sleep because it kept staying with me in my brain at night and just made me very restless. SGT DELUCA: The horror. MSGR FRONTIERO: Just thinking about what's going to happen next, they're going to do this, they're going to do that. It became a real -- SFC MORIARTY: I do the same thing you do, you know. When I wasn't at the newspaper, I was home watching it on television and, I mean, I was staying up till :00 in the morning and getting up at :00 the next day to go to work. And after four days, I couldn't bear to watch anymore. I couldn't see that plane flying into the side of the building anymore. SGT DELUCA: When you closed your eyes at night and see that plane hit that tower. SFC MORIARTY: Exactly. Yeah. And the fireball and the rest of this. And from my hometown in (inaudible) there were three people. There was one on Flight and there were two in the towers. And we're

17 0 a small town in Western Massachusetts, 0,000 people. And we had three people that could have easily have been in it. So there's six people in our small town and if that's happening all across America, you know, because New York is -- New York is one of those destination cities that a lot of people come to. Now, you've been in New York for how long? MSGR FRONTIERO: Almost three years. SFC MORIARTY: And prior to that you were -- MSGR FRONTIERO: I was in Washington, D.C. SGT DELUCA: You were going to school in Washington, weren't you? MSGR FRONTIERO: Yeah. SGT DELUCA: Which school, Georgetown? MSGR FRONTIERO: No, Catholic University. SGT DELUCA: Catholic University? MSGR FRONTIERO: Yeah. SGT DELUCA: And what were you studying? MSGR FRONTIERO: I studied moral theology. SGT DELUCA: What was that? MSGR FRONTIERO: Moral theology.

18 0 SGT DELUCA: Amoral -- MSGR FRONTIERO: (Laughter.) Health care ethics. SGT DELUCA: Okay. Okay. SFC MORIARTY: And you're a monsignor, right? MSGR FRONTIERO: Right. SFC MORIARTY: And that's an academic -- MSGR FRONTIERO: That's an honorary title. SFC MORIARTY: Oh. I thought it was an academic title. MSGR FRONTIERO: No, it's strictly honorary. SFC MORIARTY: And were in the Vatican at all? MSGR FRONTIERO: No. I mean, I've been there. I work now for the Vatican. SFC MORIARTY: Oh. So you work for the Vatican here in New York. MSGR FRONTIERO: Exactly. SFC MORIARTY: Have you noticed a change in the community of New York? MSGR FRONTIERO: Oh, yes. I mean, I think this seems to be a more respectful atmosphere. I mean, people seem to respect one another a little bit more.

19 0 They're more friendly. As a priest I can walk down the street and people say hello, Father. That never happened before. I've had people come up and ask me to bless them or pray for them. Just, you know, not around here or in the hospital; just on the street. And one man came up to me -- a few nights ago I was walking home late at night. I had gone out for a dinner and he came out from the shadows of the street and I thought he was going to ask me for money or something. He looked like a street person. And so he said hey, Father. And then grabbed my hands and he started kissing my hands. And then he embraced me and kissed me and he said, would you please bless me? And so I blessed him, and then he left. But that shocked me because in New York you're not used to that. I thought really -- I said, this guy is going to ask me for money or try to do something. He looked like a pretty frightening character. But that's all he was looking for. And I think this whole incident has created something in people, sensitized them more to the value of human life in some way, you

20 0 know, and the need for God, too, I think. SFC MORIARTY: Well, I think the other thing, too, is that it's changed your perspective. MSGR FRONTIERO: Right. SFC MORIARTY: I mean, this is a tragedy of such magnitude that it's hard to comprehend and our petty problems and desires and the rest of that just don't match up, you know. This is so immeasurable. MSGR FRONTIERO: Exactly. SFC MORIARTY: Because we've seen it ourselves. We've also seen the brotherhood who are down here and because we're wearing these uniforms, we've been privileged to be allowed into that brotherhood. But I don't envy you your task here tonight. And looking out the window, the people -- is that a summons again for you? MSGR FRONTIERO: Well, that's something different. They just -- SFC MORIARTY: Because you notice that neither one of us are asking (inaudible). I have no desire to see that end of this process. And from what I understand,

21 0 a lot of the bodies are body parts. MSGR FRONTIERO: Yes. SFC MORIARTY: And DNA is how they hope to identify them? MSGR FRONTIERO: Exactly. FATHER PAUL: Yes. SFC MORIARTY: That's one of the things that you notice here in the back of my military ID, this little strip. MSGR FRONTIERO: That's DNA? SFC MORIARTY: Yes. MSGR FRONTIERO: Wow. SFC MORIARTY: And they started doing this for all soldiers. You have one of those, too, don't you? They take your blood and the rest of the stuff and they do a DNA analysis. And from what I understand talking to some of the police and fire officers, they also do that here. MSGR FRONTIERO: Wow. SFC MORIARTY: So other than what, what you have to start doing is getting the family members to come in

22 0 and donate blood so they can start matching -- MSGR FRONTIERO: Yeah. It's a very tedious process. SFC MORIARTY: And how -- as clergy, this is what you help people with. How do you help people who never had the closure of a funeral, of having their loved one where they could put them in a casket and put them in a cemetery where they can go up every memorial day and put the flowers out and stop by and pray? FATHER PAUL: That's the hard part. That tears their heart out because they can't do that. They can't go someplace and do something with their hands, express their grief. MSGR FRONTIERO: I think most clergy are really being very good in asking and inviting families that have family that are missing to have memorial services. We just had one in our church, even though there's no body. There's a young man who his fiancé was killed and they haven't recovered the body but we had a memorial service for her at the church, which seems to -- that seems to help. I mean, you've got to do

23 0 something. You've got to ritualize the loss in some way and I think the church is really prepared to do that, where we want to do that and it's one way to help the families and to also bring some kind of closure to this for them. FATHER PAUL: We had a case which was very interesting. A young lady committed suicide and asked that her body be cremated and the ashes spread among the rose garden in the backyard of her parents' house. And they did that and we had a service. But those parents had no place to go, as you say, on memorial day. It was a beautiful thought. Before I retired, they came and said Father, would you mind -- could we take some of the soil from the rose garden where we spread the ashes, bring them to the cemetery and put them in a grave and have a headstone, so that they have a place to come by. You know, everybody else comes and decorates their grave; they had no place. SFC MORIARTY: I understand that some of the families have requested some of the ashes from here.

24 0 FATHER PAUL: Yeah. Yeah. SFC MORIARTY: And that's something that I called up the newspaper and asked one of my co-workers to call up these three families who had lost to see if they were interested in pursuing that. If they were, I was going to go over to the family center and try to get some information for them. MSGR FRONTIERO: Yeah. SFC MORIARTY: But then I realized, too, that -- how do they get the death certificates? They must have already had to come here because this would be where the death certificate would be issued, isn't it? MSGR FRONTIERO: The family center. SFC MORIARTY: Yeah. Because I don't think they can issue it in Westfield. MSGR FRONTIERO: No. I think they have to come here. SFC MORIARTY: So they may have already come here. You know, it raises -- it's not just this incident. It's the stone into the pond that ripples and ripples. For years there's going to be those kinds -- and

25 0 again, as clergy, you'll be counseling people. MSGR FRONTIERO: Yeah. FATHER PAUL: Yeah. SFC MORIARTY: And how do you prepare yourselves for -- because that is emotionally draining. FATHER PAUL: Yes. MSGR FRONTIERO: Oh, yes. Well, I think, you know, part of what grounds us is our faith. And I think that's the big difference between, for example, a counselor or a social worker and who we are as priests. Faith is a tremendous consolation for us and our belief that, you know, for example, love doesn't end in the grave. It's not the end. So this faith of ours is what I find will get us -- get me through as a priest. I mean, if this were it, if this -- then yeah. I mean, I don't know how we would be able to do what we do, and that's what we've got to try to help the people to believe in. We've got to give them hope despite the fact that sin and death has intruded into their lives. There's such destruction and violence, you know, and it's not an easy task.

26 0 But I find a lot of my family has been asking well, what are you doing? I mean, you help people and then who helps you? And that's one of the difficulties, you know. But when we went for the briefing -- tonight after we finish at midnight we have to go back and we're going to just talk for a little while about, you know, how we're feeling, how is it going. It just helps to verbalize what's going on in your head and your heart. It helps. SFC MORIARTY: You also have your own international brotherhood. Like we know they talk about the international brotherhood of police officers. FATHER PAUL: Yeah. Yeah. MSGR FRONTIERO: Right. SFC MORIARTY: You have one of the largest international brotherhoods of priests and you usually have a friend or a confessor that you can approach when you have your moments -- MSGR FRONTIERO: Exactly. SFC MORIARTY: -- of pain and whatnot. They've already started turning lights on here.

27 0 MSGR FRONTIERO: Yeah. SFC MORIARTY: Is there anything that I haven't asked you about in this process that perhaps should be documented or anything personal that you want to add? MSGR FRONTIERO: I don't know. I don't think so. I don't think so. SGT DELUCA: And through all this, in addition to these additional duties, you've still been doing your function (inaudible)? MSGR FRONTIERO: Oh, yes. Yes. Although my boss (inaudible) has been very good. I told him that I'd like to do something and he said, oh, by all means, you know, it's a good idea that I try to help in any little way that I can. So he's been very good. Oh, yeah. But I still -- I worked a full day today and left early to come here. But you know, for me, this kind of work and dealing with people is really what the priesthood is all about. Right now I happen to have a desk job, you know, and I'm not crazy about it. But I prefer to be with people in their hour of need and moments of joy

28 0 and sorrow and to do the work of a priest in the trenches. That's what I like to do. SFC MORIARTY: It would seem to me that with the way the political things are shaping out here now, don't you feel vulnerable at all being in the UN buildings because it would seem to me that they would be an ideal terrorist target. MSGR FRONTIERO: Right. Well, the UN -- I mean, they're very, very concerned right now that there will be some kind of attack. They're certainly preparing for it. They have very close security. You can't drive anywhere near the UN. And also, they've had two drills now, bomb drills, you know, for all of the staff people at the United Nations and delegates who go to work there. You had to go and practice evacuating the building. So they're taking every precaution. SGT DELUCA: Did they have nuns in the hallways directing people where to go? MSGR FRONTIERO: (Laughter.) SFC MORIARTY: I always found that -- I went to Catholic school so I always found that the good sisters

29 0 were most efficient in getting people to do what they were supposed to do. MSGR FRONTIERO: That's good. But I personally don't feel worried or anxious about that. I don't know why but I just don't. SFC MORIARTY: Okay. Do you have any questions? SGT DELUCA: You mentioned the security around the UN. Who is providing that? Is it the police? MSGR FRONTIERO: I think it's -- the UN has its own security people -- force. So they are providing the security, which they always have security there. But what they do have now that's different is they have these huge sand trucks all over the place and the perimeter of the United Nations so you can't drive a car in. And those are, I imagine, city trucks. I'm not sure. But -- SGT DELUCA: On the UN property itself, because it's a jurisdictional thing -- MSGR FRONTIERO: Yes. SGT DELUCA: -- the UN is international territory. MSGR FRONTIERO: Exactly.

30 0 0 SGT DELUCA: It's not US territory so even though the New York Police Department works very closely in conjunction, they have responsibility for the UN property. But there will probably be rings of New York police outside of that and several layers deep. MSGR FRONTIERO: Right. And also the State Department of the United States is responsible for diplomatic security, you know, for protecting the diplomats who are here. So they have their own network of people that are involved in this whole thing, too. SGT DELUCA: Plus it's all the counselors throughout all of New York. MSGR FRONTIERO: Exactly. All of that. But the mayor has been very directive in how the United Nations will proceed with its work because, as you know, they've postponed the general debate wherein the heads of state come every fall for a two-week period. They now are thinking of having that in November. But that -- SGT DELUCA: He just spoke, Giuliani -- MSGR FRONTIERO: On Monday.

31 0 SGT DELUCA: Right. SFC MORIARTY: Were you there? MSGR FRONTIERO: Yes, I was there for that. And it was a very good speech. SFC MORIARTY: How was his reception? MSGR FRONTIERO: Excellent. Excellent. I think he received a standing ovation for more than two minutes. It was really quite impressive. But he gave a great speech to the United Nations which they could really -- they need to hear once in a while that they've got to really -- they've got to be decidedly against terrorism and they've got to take action, not just talk about it. The UN is a -- SFC MORIARTY: Very good at talking. MSGR FRONTIERO: Don't get me going on the United Nations. So he -- there's no holds barred with him. He just really told it like it was and did a very good job. SFC MORIARTY: Nothing further? No questions? Then we'll end the interview right now. (The interview was concluded.)

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