Christ in Prophecy Q&A 11: Fisher & Pollock on Prophecy Questions

Transcription

1 Christ in Prophecy Q&A 11: Fisher & Pollock on Prophecy Questions 2011 Lamb & Lion Ministries. All Rights Reserved. For a video of this show, please visit Opening Dr. Reagan: I have been holding Bible prophecy conferences for over 30 years, and my favorite part of each conference is always the question and answer period where we give people in the audience an opportunity to ask any questions they please. In just a moment I m going to start throwing questions about Bible prophecy at two guest experts, stay tuned for what I know will be some very fascinating and informative responses. Part 1 Dr. Reagan: Greetings in the name of Jesus our Blessed hope and welcome to Christ in Prophecy. I am delighted this week to have as my special guests two old friends and colleagues, Gary Fisher from Franklin, Tennessee a suburb of Nashville, and Dennis Pollock from McKinney, Texas a suburb of Dallas. Welcome Guys. Dennis Pollock: Thank you, great to be with you. Gary Fisher: Thank you Dave great to be here. Dr. Reagan: Glad to have both of you always. Enjoy having both of you. Gary Fisher: Good to see you Dennis. Dennis Pollock: Good to see you. Dr. Reagan: Although I get a little nervous because I never know what either one of you are going to say. Gary Fisher: Same hold true today. 1

2 Dr. Reagan: Gary Fisher is the Evangelist for Lion of Judah Ministries; it is a Bible Prophecy Ministry that Gary established in Dennis Pollock is a former colleague of mine here at Lamb and Lion Ministries, he served this ministry faithfully for 11 years before he decided in 2005 to step out and establish his own ministry called Spirit of Grace. He specializes in foreign mission work in various parts of the world, but primarily in Africa. I ve asked these two experts on Bible prophecy to join me today for a question and answer session. And I want to jump right in by asking you guys; what is the strangest question you ve ever received in a question and answer period? Gary Fisher: Oh, we ve had a lot of fun talking about this. I think some of mine were related to Y2K, I got s from people asking me if I was going to sell survival equipment and build a bunker. Was I going to sell? Dr. Reagan: Did you have machine guns? Gary Fisher: Yes, right all that kind of stuff. So, but we never did any of that, we just kept preaching the Word and Y2K proved to be nothing of course. What about you? Dennis Pollock: Well as I was thinking about it I did have someone ask me if I really believed that Barney the cartoon purple dinosaur was the Antichrist? Dr. Reagan: What? How did that happen? Dennis Pollock: Well what happened was I was reading an article that was tongue in cheek that was trying to make the point that anybody with a little reasoning and a little mathematics thrown in can prove that that anybody else is the Antichrist. So we were doing radio at the time. Dr. Reagan: Yes. Dennis Pollock: And I read this article and I let them know at the beginning that this was just tongue in cheek, it wasn t real. And then I went into this complicated formula using Barney s name and numbers and numerology and all these things to show point blank that Barney must be. Dr. Reagan: So somebody tuned-in in the middle of that. Dennis Pollock: That s what happened, he tuned-in in the middle of it, hearing me prove that Barney the dinosaur was the Antichrist so he had to know did I really believe that? And to let him know, no I didn t believe it. 2

3 Dr. Reagan: Oh, that is hilarious. Gary Fisher: What interests me about what we have done in the past in Bible prophecy is that it attracts those who want to use the Bible as a springboard and then they go from there with their imaginations. Dr. Reagan: Oh yeah. Gary Fisher: And I had this one about a guy wanting to know if King Selassie of Africa Dr. Reagan: Haile Selassie. Gary Fisher: he was going to become the resurrected Messiah, he is going to be Jesus, and what did I think about that? And I didn t know what to say about that. Dr. Reagan: I had a teenager one time ask me, Is going to Hell like being sucked into a black hole in space? Then I was up in Coeur d Alene, Idaho where there were a lot of survivalists and we had a question and answer period and I had never got such questions in all my life. What is the prophetic implication of the black helicopters that are going around all over the United States spying on us? What are the prophet implications of the thirty-thousand Communists troops, Chinese Communist troops that are on the boarder of China ready to invade the United States any moment? What is the prophetic implication of the concentration camps being built all over the United States because the President is going to declare Martial Law and put us all in concentration camps? I mean I just, I thought I was in Lalaland. Gary Fisher: I get a bunch of them that the guy will go, What do you believe about the Lusahavren of the thirteenth harmonic of the square root of the? And I want to go back and say, Would you care for another drink? Dennis Pollock: You know the Bible tells us that self-control is one of the fruits of the Spirit and if you are going to be a prophecy teacher and do question and answer you ve got to have self-control. Dr. Reagan: You do. Dennis Pollock: Because number one there are questions that are going to come your way you are going to want to break out laughing, and you ve got to hold back. And the second response is you are going to want to say, Are you crazy? 3

4 Gary Fisher: Yeah, amen. Dr. Reagan: Well one of the things that gives Bible prophecy a bad reputation unfortunately because there are people who traffic in this stuff and love to put out all these kinds of rumors. Well let s move on. Let me read you a verse from 1 Corinthians 13:12, Now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face, When we stand face to face with Jesus. Now I know in part, but then I shall know fully just as I also have been fully known. You know this says that we only understand in part now, but when we stand in Jesus Christ, in His presence we are going to understand it all. But what if you could ask Jesus a question right now about Bible prophecy? Gary Fisher: Today. Dr. Reagan: What question would you ask today? Gary Fisher: I would say I want to know the exact chronology of how all is going to work that is remaining to be accomplished. Dr. Reagan: Right. Gary Fisher: I want to. Dr. Reagan: Is Psalm 83 going before Ezekiel 38? Is Ezekiel 38 going to be before the Tribulation? Gary Fisher: Exactly, I want to know it in detail how it is going to work out. Dr. Reagan: So you want a chart. Gary Fisher: I do, one I don t have to correct. Dr. Reagan: Okay how about you Dennis? Dennis Pollock: I think I would want to know just what are we going to be doing in Heaven? You know the prophecies talk about Heaven and we get just little glimpses. Dr. Reagan: But they don t tell us much. Dennis Pollock: They don t tell us much at all and I have an eagerness to just know what will it really be like? Dr. Reagan: Yeah the Bible has great detail about the Millennium what we will be doing. 4

5 Dennis Pollock: Yeah. Dr. Reagan: But when it comes to Heaven it s mainly two things stand out in my mind: we will see the face of God, which means we will have intimate fellowship with God. Gary Fisher: Amen. Dr. Reagan: And we will serve Him. Gary Fisher: Yeah. Dr. Reagan: So there are going to be things to do, but you know what? Dennis Pollock: Right and the one thing that a lot of people think that I don t believe is that we will be singing 24/7. I mean I enjoy worship, I enjoy singing, but hour after hour, day after day, year after year, millennia. Dr. Reagan: No, no, no but I tell you what I can hardly wait to be in a worship service that David leads. Dennis Pollock: Yeah, amen. Gary Fisher: Amen, amen. Dr. Reagan: Because he was kind of an uninhibited person. Dennis Pollock: That s right and I think we will be as well, if we are not already. Dr. Reagan: I think my question would be; who in the world are those people s who seem to be living outside the eternal Jerusalem on the New Earth? Gary Fisher: Absolutely. Dr. Reagan: There seems to be people living, who are they, where did they come from? Gary Fisher: Good question. Dr. Reagan: What is the deal about that? I ve never been able to quite to figure that out. Well there s a lot, you know I have a long list and not only about Bible prophecy but other things as well. But certainly that would be the one concerning Bible prophecy. Well why is a knowledge of the Old Testament essential to understanding Bible prophecy? 5

6 Dennis Pollock: You know Dave when I started working with you one of the things that you insisted when I wrote was that whenever I quoted Scripture I had to give the reference you even told me exactly how to do it, you put the parenthesis and the period goes at the end of the parenthesis not before. And so you insisted that I always give the reference. The thing of it is these guys didn t have you to tell them, the writers of the Bible to always give the reference. Dr. Reagan: That s right. Dennis Pollock: So you were reading huge chunks of prophecy in the New Testament that is going directly back to the Old Testament, in fact Revelation is just full of Old Testament prophecies. Dr. Reagan: Over 300 and not one quoted. Dennis Pollock: Yeah. Dr. Reagan: The Hebrews keep saying it says somewhere, it says somewhere. Dennis Pollock: Right, Matthew as well, will at least give the author, he maybe won t give chapter and verse because there were none in those days but he will at least give you the author, but in Revelation they don t. And so the New Testament prophecies are based on the foundation of the Old Testament prophecies. If you throw that out or never read or study them you are definitely going to be at a loss for really understanding the whole picture. Gary Fisher: Well I am no stranger to this question because I was raised in a denomination that taught that the Old Testament was fulfilled, it is therefore no longer relevant. The New Testament is the only relevant book. Matter of fact we d go to the book stores to buy a book, we would buy a New Testament we wouldn t even buy the Old Testament. Dr. Reagan: Yes we grew up in the same kind of church and if the preacher said, Bring your Bible, we all brought our New Testament. Gary Fisher: But I am with Dennis; the Old Testament illuminates the New. And one of the classic examples I can come up with Romans 11:25, a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in and then Israel will be saved. Is there something in the Old Testament that gives us more illumination of that? Yes there is, the day they look on Him whom they have pierced and they mourn for Him as one who mourns for an only son. But you have to have the two verses together for them to really start to fall together. 6

7 Dr. Reagan: One that pops into my mind, there is just no way in the world to understand Daniel and the Revelation apart from each other, they fit together like a hand and a glove. Gary Fisher: You re right, amen. Dr. Reagan: You ve got to know Daniel to understand Revelation, so people really need to get into the Old Testament if they are going to understand Bible prophecy. Well what would you say is the most important key? If you were telling somebody the most important key to understanding Bible prophecy, there is so much misunderstanding. What is the key to understanding it? Dennis Pollock: Well the key is actually something that I have heard you say so many times which is that if the plan sense makes sense you don t look for any other sense, or you will end up with nonsense. In other words what you do is unless the passage or the prophecy is just shouting and screaming I am an illustration, I am a symbol, then you take it at face value. And you will come up with a for more accurate perspective then if you decide every prophetic passage has to be translated by me and I will figure out exactly what He is saying. Dr. Reagan: Which makes you God. Dennis Pollock: Which makes you God. Let me give you an example; in Zechariah 14 it says the Lord is going to fight against the nations that have come against Jerusalem. It says, His feet are going to stand on the Mount of Olives, it says living waters is going to come forth and flow from Jerusalem and He will be the King, the Lord will be the King over the whole earth. Dr. Reagan: Yes. Dennis Pollock: Now let me give you the Dennis Pollock translation and interpretation of these deep passages. Here is what I believe it is saying; The Lord will go forth and fight against the nations that come against Jerusalem, His feet are going to stand on the Mount of Olives, living waters are going to flow from Jerusalem and Jesus will be King over the whole earth. Now I know that is incredibly profound. Dr. Reagan: You are obviously a fundamentalist. Dennis Pollock: But I am taking the safe route which is to believe that what the Bible says is true. 7

8 Dr. Reagan: But Dennis the point of the matter is that same book Zechariah has all kinds of First Coming prophecies and every one of them meant what it said. Dennis Pollock: Exactly. Dr. Reagan: They said the Messiah is going to come humbly on a donkey and be hailed as a King. Today s allegorizers would say, Well no that does not mean He is going to come on a donkey, it just means He is going to be a humble person. No He came on a donkey. Dennis Pollock: That s exactly right. Dr. Reagan: If the First Coming prophecies meant what they said, why don t the Second ones mean what they say? What would you say about this? Gary Fisher: My answer to this is believe the Bible as it is written; believe the Bible as it is written. Dennis has already read Zechariah, I was having lunch with a pastor one day, we were talking about this issue and I knew we were in trouble when we got to lunch, he slid this booklet across the table and he said, This is the latest booklet that I wrote on Bible prophecy. And he looked at me and said, Gary, I studied these things and I respectfully just believe you are wrong. And I said, Wrong about which part? He said, Jesus is never going coming back to this earth. Dr. Reagan: Oh, my. Gary Fisher: And I said, Brother, Zechariah 14:4 says that His feet one day will touch the Mount of Olives. He said, Don t you understand that is just talking about the born again experience. And I said, No I didn t understand that. I believe it just like Dennis read it a few moments ago, I believe exactly like Zechariah. Dr. Reagan: Amen brother, amen. Gary Fisher: C.I. Scofield was one of my heroes in this issue. He wrote in 1908 that he didn t quite understand it but that Russia was going to attack Israel in the last days. That was in Dr. Reagan: Well Israel didn t exist. Gary Fisher: Israel didn t exist, and Russia was a Christian nation. But he believed the Bible as it was written. Dr. Reagan: Yeah. 8

9 Gary Fisher: And so we will be on safe ground if we do so. Dennis Pollock: Well you remember when the wise men came to Herod and they were wanting a little more info about where this king was going to be born. Herod calls for the scribes, he says, Hey guys you know you guys study the Scriptures where do you suppose the Messiah is going to be born? What did they tell him? They said, It will be in Bethlehem of Judea. How in the world did they figure that out? They read the Old Testament and it said, From you Bethlehem Ephrathah will come forth a ruler. So they read the Scripture and they said, You know what I believe exactly as it reads. And they nailed it, they got it dead on. Gary Fisher: That s right, that s right. Dennis Pollock: And that is how we understand prophecy. Dr. Reagan: The only thing I would add to what you all have said is that principle should apply to all the Bible, not just to Bible prophecy, but to all the Bible. Dennis Pollock: Absolutely. Dr. Reagan: Take it for its plain sense meaning. God wants to communicate, He knows how to communicate. You don t have to have a Ph.D. in hermeneutics or imagination in order to understand God s Word, amen. Gary Fisher: Absolutely, I m there. Part 2 Dr. Reagan: Welcome back to Christ in Prophecy and our question and answer session with Gary Fisher, and Dennis Pollock. Fellas let s just shift gears for a moment here and shift to some questions about end time Bible prophecy. The predominant end time viewpoint in Christendom today is not the Premillennial, Pre-Tribulational view that is so popular among the masses of people, but the viewpoint that is held by most denomination including the Catholic church is what is called the Amillennial viewpoint which says that we are in the Millennium now and there will be no future reign of Jesus Christ. He will simply come back take us to Heaven and that is it. What do you see is the weakness of that viewpoint? Gary Fisher: Well one thing my wife instructed me to say, it doesn t make sense, just plain and simple. 9

10 Dennis Pollock: We are glad you got that in; you ve got to keep her happy. Dr. Reagan: You need to listen to your wife. Gary Fisher: And I am in her camp. Dr. Reagan: That s just got to get down where the rubber meets the road here now. Gary Fisher: It plain doesn t make sense. When you read the Bible it declares that there is going to be a kingdom on earth. This was Old Testament theology, this is what the Jewish nation always expected for there to be a king ruling and reigning on earth. And Jesus introduced a new theology to them in John 14, I go to the Father s house to prepare a place for you. But before that the Jewish theology was that the king was going to come to earth and so that is called the Premillennial viewpoint. Dr. Reagan: And has anything in the New Testament negated that? Gary Fisher: No, absolutely not. Dr. Reagan: In fact it reinforces it. Dennis Pollock: You ve to throw out huge amounts of Scripture both from Old and New Testament to come to that. Dr. Reagan: Or allegorize. Dennis Pollock: Or allegorize; well that is what you are doing. But Revelation 20 tells us plainly that the Lord will reign for a 1,000 years on the earth. Isaiah and other places declare how the details of that, and all that will be involved. The fact that you will have peace, and there will be no carnivorous animals, all of these different things. To throw all of that out, it makes no sense at all. The Bible says for example, ask of me and I will give you the nations for your inheritance. The Father is saying to the Son, He is telling I will give you these nations. Well if Christ is going to simply take us away and burn up the world and it is going to end, then Christ hasn t gained the nations. The Bible says we will rule on the earth, the Bible says the meek will inherit the earth and delight themselves in the abundance of peace. Scripture after Scripture after Scripture says there is going to come an age where there will be peace, where Christ will rule, and to throw that out is just to do a terrible disservice to Scripture. And the funny thing is you said this is what the predominate view is, and you are right. But the thing of it is most of the people and the churches that technically hold to that view, they couldn t defend it, they can t 10

11 explain it, they hardly know what it is talking about, it is just their view. The people that really study Scripture, think about it, and study prophecy almost invariable come to the point where they believe there will be a 1,000 year reign. Dr. Reagan: That s right. You know when you said your wife said, It doesn t make sense, well just stop and think for a moment, if you are going to believe in Amillennialism then you ve got to believe that we are in the Millennium now. Gary Fisher: Right. Dr. Reagan: That the earth is flooded with peace, righteousness and justice as the waters cover the sea. Gary Fisher: Yes. Dr. Reagan: I don t see it anywhere. We ve got to believe that Jesus is on the Throne of David when the Throne of David has always been one place, in Jerusalem. And the Bible says that He is at His Father s Throne, at the right hand of His Father s Throne in Heaven. We ve got to believe that Satan is bound. Is Satan bound? It just Gary Fisher: Depends on how many drinks you ve had. Dr. Reagan: I guess so. It just makes no sense, you have to spiritualize huge portions of God s Word, and say it does not mean what it says. Gary Fisher: The wolf lies down with the lamb today. Dr. Reagan: Yeah. Gary Fisher: I was always amazed trying to figure this out as a young Bible student growing up, how can we be living in peace, righteousness, and justice yet there are wars, rumors of wars and so forth. The wolf is lying down with the lamb, Satan is bound, and yet the Bible says he roams about like a roaring lion seeking whom he may defile. And I was very confused growing up until I started believing the Bible as it is written. Dr. Reagan: And also you know if Jesus if reigning today over this world, boy He is sure doing a terrible job of it. Gary Fisher: He s not doing a very good job at all. 11

12 Dr. Reagan: I tell you when He comes and reigns there is going to be peace, righteousness, and justice. Dennis Pollock: That s right. Gary Fisher: Absolutely. Dr. Reagan: Well let s go to another end time viewpoint. Another one that is being revived today, this was the viewpoint of the Church in the 19 th Century and that is called Post- Millennialism; the idea the Church is going to conquer the world. Convert everybody to Jesus Christ, reign for a 1,000 years, and at the end of that time Jesus Christ will come, Post- Millennial, after the Millennium. And it died at the beginning of the 20 th Century but it is being revived today. Many different Christian leaders today are reviving this idea that the Church is going to have an international peace plan and go out and conquer the world for Jesus Christ and be able to convert all these people and we will reign over the whole earth. What about that one? Gary Fisher: Well one of the major features of that view is it lends itself to the inevitable progress of man. And anybody that is able to look at the news today, hurricanes, earthquakes, the condition of man, lawlessness and all that kind of stuff and say that the world is getting better is really on another planet. Dr. Reagan: Well that is what killed the view in the first place in the beginning of the 20 th Century when we had World War I, the Great Depression, World War II, people said, Hey things are not getting better. It is based upon the assumption of the progressive mankind getting better and better and better, and the world getting better and better. And when you read articles by these guys you wonder if they are living on a deserted island someplace where there is no news media. Gary Fisher: Exactly. Dennis Pollock: It not only goes against what we see as far as current conditions, but it definitely goes against Scripture. The two primary places that you find the events that will be going on just before Christ returns are going to be the Book of Revelation, and the prophetic sayings of Jesus in the Olivet Discourse. In both cases they are describing a wicked world that God is not at all happy with. I mean Revelation shows an angry God. And so if this Post- 12

13 Millennial view is right, the world is getting better and better, and by the time Christ comes we are all in a state of perfection. Dr. Reagan: That s right. Dennis Pollock: I mean everything is going just hunky-dory and yet the Bible says in Revelation God is angry, the wrath of the Lamb has come and judgment is being poured out. Bowls of God s anger are being poured out; it is not a happy place. So it totally contradicts what Jesus says. Dr. Reagan: Plus Jesus makes it clear in His teachings that the world is never going to be converted to Jesus Christ. He says that the road to Hell is very wide, and narrow is the road to Heaven. He talks about in the Parable of the Sower one out of four. It just goes against Scripture. Dennis Pollock: And He says, As it was in the Days of Noah, so it will be in the Days of the Son of Man, and in the days of Noah things weren t going that well. Dr. Reagan: Immorality and violence. Gary Fisher: I would like to tandem off of Dennis point, the Scripture demands the absolute opposite of the inevitable progress of man. The Scripture says in the last days they will go from worse, to worse, to worse, to worse. Dr. Reagan: Terrible spiral down. Gary Fisher: Absolutely. Dr. Reagan: Okay. Gary Fisher: And the other thing I would like to comment on really quickly is that in this viewpoint, and this makes it very suspect, the Church has replaced Israel. Dr. Reagan: Yes, that is true. Gary Fisher: And the Church has not replaced Israel. Dr. Reagan: Well we can t get into that right now; we ve got to go to another end time viewpoint very quickly. Gary Fisher: I understand. 13

14 Dr. Reagan: And that is the one that the two of you hold and that is called the Pre- Tribulational, Premillennial viewpoint, the idea that Jesus Christ is coming back to reign for a 1,000 years on this earth and there will be a Rapture of the Church before that occurs and He will return with the Church to reign. Why do you believe that? Dennis first. Dennis Pollock: The Pre-Trib viewpoint we are talking about right? Dr. Reagan: Yes. Dennis Pollock: Yeah, well let me ask you this. Did you ever have a snow cone when you were a kid that you took the tip off and you sucked all the juice out of? Dr. Reagan: Oh, yes, oh, yes. Dennis Pollock: It was great wasn t it? Dr. Reagan: Yeah. Dennis Pollock: But when you got done. Dr. Reagan: I thought I was the only one that ever did that. Dennis Pollock: When you got done what did you have left? A bunch of flavorless ice. Dr. Reagan: That s right. Dennis Pollock: That was essentially worthless. Dr. Reagan: Yeah. Dennis Pollock: You had sucked the life out of that snow cone and it become worthless. And the idea that Christ can only come after all these things have been fulfilled, the idea that there has to be a Tribulation first, there has to be a Antichrist to rise up first, there has to be the rebuilding of the Temple first. What it does it puts people in position to say when they wake up in the morning Jesus Christ could not possibly come today, because all these things haven t been fulfilled. Dr. Reagan: That s right. Dennis Pollock: They have sucked the life out of the doctrine of the coming of Christ, because Jesus said you watch for me, I m coming when you don t expect. So you have totally 14

15 sapped it from its vitality and life and the whole point of what Christ is giving us in terms of the doctrine of His return is be alert, be watchful, I m going to come and surprise you. Dr. Reagan: Okay, very quickly Gary give me a reason why you believe. Gary Fisher: Mine was the same answer; I would put it a little bit different than sucking the juice out of a snow cone though. Dr. Reagan: Well Dennis is known for his illustrations. Gary Fisher: One of the things that I love to do at my conferences is talk to Mr. Lostman. And I will Dr. Reagan: Mr. who? Gary Fisher: Mr. Lostman. Dr. Reagan: Lostman, okay. Gary Fisher: And I will say to him, you have this going on, this going on, this going on in the world and Jesus could come today. If that is not true then I am misrepresenting the Scripture. If you take the idea that Jesus can come today then the Pre-Trib doctrine is gone. The only doctrine that can satisfy the idea that Jesus can come today is the Pre-Trib doctrine. Dr. Reagan: You said if you believe Jesus could come today the Pre-Trib doctrine is gone. Gary Fisher: Yes, it would disappear, because if He cannot come today then there is no such thing as a Pre-Trib doctrine. The Pre-Trib doctrine demands that He can come today. You understand what I am saying, I think? The Pre-Trib doctrine is the only one that demands that He can come today. If you place it in the Mid-Trib, Post-Trib it cannot happen today. Dr. Reagan: That s true. Jesus taught over and over I may come any moment that is called immanency. Gary Fisher: Yes. Dr. Reagan: That means He can come any moment. Gary Fisher: Yes. 15

16 Dr. Reagan: And if you believe that a whole bunch of things have to happen first then there is no immanency, there is no reason why you should say Jesus may come today. Gary Fisher: And I want to talk to Mr. Lostman and say, Get right today. Today while there is time, because you don t know what is going to happen tomorrow, but Jesus can come today. Without the Premillennial, Pre-Tribulational viewpoint you do not have that doctrine. Dr. Reagan: Well that is a very, very good point and I don t know really how folks who disagree with it get around that point because basically what they are saying is Jesus is going to come at the end of the Tribulation. And so if that is true then you know what we should be watching for the Antichrist not Jesus Christ. Gary Fisher: Yes. Dennis Pollock: We should have a check-list out and as soon as all our check-list have checks in them we can allow Him to come. Gary Fisher: Yes. Dr. Reagan: Yes, because you ve got to have the Great Tribulation, you ve got to have the Temple rebuilt, you ve got to have the persecution of the Jewish people, and on and on and on before Jesus Christ returns. Gary Fisher: That s it. Dr. Reagan: But the Bible says He can return any moment. Gary Fisher: Yes. Dr. Reagan: And the only way that can happen is if you believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture. Gary Fisher: Thank you. Dr. Reagan: And basically when you look at the Rapture and compare it to the Second Coming the two are totally different anyway. Because in one Jesus appears, the other He comes to earth, one He comes for His Church the other He returns with His Church. Gary Fisher: Yes. Dr. Reagan: So that is the only way really to reconcile the Scriptures. 16

17 Part 3 Dr. Reagan: Well fellas I want to thank both of you for being with me today and let me throw these questions at you. I wish I had time to throw a whole bunch more because there a lot more I know our folks out there would like to hear, but you ve done a great job in responding. Isn t it fun to respond to questions at conferences when people ask, it is really wonderful. I would like for you to tell, both of you to tell our viewers how they can get in touch with you and just do that and what are some of the resources you might have. Dennis would you do it first? Dennis Pollock: Sure, our ministry website is: spiritofgrace.o-r-g and we have a free newsletter that shares some of the things that we are doing, our Africa trips and India trips. Also we have a free DVD that is yours upon request that will share one of those particular missions; I know you will be excited. So go to spiritofgrace.org, click on the contact button you can shoot us an and ask to be on our mailing list. Dr. Reagan: And are you available for speaking? Dennis Pollock: Yeah, absolutely. Dr. Reagan: Ok, conferences and that sort of thing. And do you have a regular newsletter that you send out, and is it free. Dennis Pollock: We do, it comes every month and it is free. Dr. Reagan: Ok, thank you. How about you Gary? Gary Fisher: Our website is you can go there and sign up for a newsletter called the Trumpeter, it features current events and how they relate to the soon return of the Lord. I am available for conferences doing current events and how they relate to the soon return of Jesus all over the world. We sponsor tours to Israel and you can do all of that on the website, send me an from there, goes straight to my folder and I welcome you. Get in touch with us please. Dr. Reagan: I think those people interested going to Israel really should get in touch with you because I know you do a great job of leading those groups over there. I know you do because I trained you. Gary Fisher: Thank you, that is exactly right. That is exactly it. 17

18 Dr. Reagan: Well fellas I just pray the Lord will continue to anoint both of you and supply every need of your ministries because they are really great ministries. May He magnify your voice. Gary Fisher: Thank you. Dennis Pollock: Thank you. Dr. Reagan: Well folks that s our program for this week, I hope it has been a blessing to you, it sure has been to me. And I pray you will be back with us next week. Until then this is Dave Reagan speaking for Lamb and Lion Ministries' saying, Look up, be watchful for our redemption is drawing near. End of Program 18