[music] SID: Tell me about this reoccurring dream that you kept having that opened all of this to you.

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1 1 SID: Finally, you're going to understand why the promises of God are not manifesting in your life. An ancient mystery, I say an ancient key has been stolen. Is there a supernatural dimension, a world beyond the one we know? Is there life after death? Do angels exist? Can our dreams contain messages from Heaven? Can we tap into ancient secrets of the supernatural? Are healing miracles real? SID Roth has spent over 35 years researching the strange world of the supernatural. Join SID for this edition of It s Supernatural. SID: Hello. Sid Roth here. Welcome to my world where it s naturally supernatural. My guest, Kerry Kirkwood, is going to mentor you in the power of imagination. And you know, when I say imagination, some of you think, oh, he's talking about New Age. No. That's a counterfeit of something authentic. Let me give you an example. Just before I became a believer in the Messiah I got involved in the New Age, and I saw a lot of things that are similar to after I became a believer in healing, in confessing, in imagining. And I was so fearful of touching anything to do with the New Age, I sort of threw out the baby with the dirty bath water. You see, the devil is a counterfeit artist. Now if you go to the U.S. Treasury and you're trained to know the difference between a counterfeit and an authentic dollar, you don't study the counterfeit. You study the authentic. That's why we have It's Supernatural, so you can study the authentic. Kerry, you know, this thing about imagination is so powerful. You were telling me about a study you read of medical students. KERRY: Right. In 2007, there's been many articles. But particularly one in 2007, pre-med students who begin to study the diseases they had been tested over, started having symptoms over the very diseases that they were studying about. So the more that they looked at the diseases, they started seeing the symptoms showing up, at least they felt those symptoms, showing up in their body, because Proverbs says, "As one thinks, so he becomes." SID: So someone goes to a doctor and the doctor says, "Well according to this blood test, it looks like you're going to have these things and you have this in your background, in your ancestry." And then you're using your imagination, but in reverse. KERRY: Right, because imagination is really a picture and pictures can lead us to a destiny. So when people start seeing these kinds of things they accept them as truth and it becomes a reality to them. SID: Tell me about this reoccurring dream that you kept having that opened all of this to you. KERRY: Wow. I play golf occasionally. And I had for three nights in a row the same dream, and in this dream, I was putting for the major championship. A lot of money was on the line. I was ahead. I was on the 18th green. All I had to make was a 6-inch putt. And I remember in this dream, as I got up to make the putt, the ball went up to the edge of the cup and wouldn't go in.

2 2 The next night, I had the same dream. The ball went off a little bit. The third night, I had the same dream, all in a row, and I woke up and I was so frustrated. And I realized there was something in my family that we had never been able to break through into any kind of success. So I was laying there. I felt the Holy Spirit impress me, "Go ahead and finish the dream." And I thought, I can't finish the dream. I can't go back to sleep. He said, "No, you don't have to go back to sleep. I want you to see that ball going into the cup. You need to see it." And when I did that in my own thoughts and in my own mind, we would say imagination, I saw that image. The ball went into that, it broke something through my family, and I've seen it all the way through my siblings. Things have been different ever since. SID: Now after you had that dream you started studying imagination in the Bible. Tell me some of your first insights where light bulbs went off. KERRY: Well I realized that we were created in the imagination of God. It wasn't just in the image, like God looks like us, because that isn't what it is. And so if we were created in the imagination of God, then that meant that God had an understanding of a plan for us. In Jeremiah, it says that, "I have thoughts for you, plans for you, welfare, not for calamity." So that's a pretty good picture right there. So when Adam and Eve, through their disobedience, fail, that Adam, before that time, had the ability to name the animals. There was a creativity about him. He could understand the things of God, because the original says that when God breathed into man, he became a speaking spirit. He was a spirit that had insight in that. And when he lost that ability, the creativity, then that's something that has been lost, and we just kind of think that imagination is bad thing, because we've heard of vain imagination, we've heard of wild imagination. But really, God gave us imagination in the very beginning. SID: I was impressed when I studied your teaching. In the very beginning, we were made in the image of God. But you took it one step further, in the imagination of God. KERRY: That's right, because you have the ability to look beyond the circumstances and to see the bigger picture. And God wants us to see eye to eye with him, and see the way He sees. Ephesians 1:17-18 is a powerful verse. This was what connected the dots for me. It says, and Paul is making this as an apostolic prayer. He says, "I pray that the eyes of your understanding, the eyes of your heart," not the eyes of the head, "the eyes of your heart, would be enlightened." And that word "enlightened" originally was translated from the word "photiso", which means "photograph." It means t take a picture. So it goes something like, I pray that the eyes of your heart would be able to take a picture so that you would know what is the hope of your calling. God wants to implant, to impress upon our heart an image, or a picture, if you will, the things that He has in store for us and that we can be. SID: What difference is it making, say, in your life, when you got this revelation? KERRY: Well when I'm praying for people even in the ministry, that I can see ahead of time. I just know the heart of God because I'm not making it up, because we know the Bible says that it's God's will that none should perish. All shall come to the knowledge of the son of God. So I know that's the image of God. So therefore, I take what the Word of God says and I just begin to see people being healed, their lives being transformed, and prophetically then I can begin to see

3 3 this is what God really had in store for you. But you bought into another image that wasn't the image that God gave you. The devil comes in and gives you an image of yourself, a failure and words that some have spoken over you and has created a wrong image, and thus, an imagination. SID: You know, I'm reminded of when all the people became as one and they were building the Tower of Babel to Heaven. And God said nothing is impossible for them with that evil. Imagination can be used for evil or can be used for good. KERRY: Exactly. SID: For instance, I'm very concerned over the Internet exposing a whole generation to pornography. What happens when someone just cogitates and uses their imagination in these pictures of pornography? What's going on? KERRY: In that verse, in Genesis 11, we talked about the Tower of Babel, God saw that there was nothing impossible that they had imagined to do. They had a picture in their mind what they were going to do. When God came down, in order for that work to stop, He confused the language. You can change the language and change the dialogue that one has with one another, with God then all of that image stops. The dialogue that we have with God puts within us the right image. Pornography is a billions of dollar industry every year because pornography is a visual picture that is emblazoned upon a heart, and it causes shame. It is the perversion of how God wants us to see Him. It's the perversion of how He wants us to see our marriage, our spouses, and other people. And so it is a substitute for what God really says, I have this in store for you, but you've settled for something less than. SID: You know Kerry, I am so excited for Kerry to reveal a revelation. God told him that this is the key to solve every problem. How would you like the key to solve every problem? Don't go away. We'll be back right. We ll be right back to It s Supernatural. [pause] We now return to It s Supernatural. SID: Hello. Sid Roth here with Kerry Kirkwood. Kerry, how does the power of imagination fit with physical healing. For instance, tell me about that woman with MS, Diana. KERRY: I was in Houston in a meeting and there was a healing conference, actually. I was there the last night. And it was late in the evening. The auditorium was about the size of a

4 4 gymnasium. There were people stretched all the way across the front. I would go along and I would just have a word, like a prophetic word, and I would say to them what I was seeing. And it went all the way down through to almost to the end of the line to this one person. With Diana, I didn't know the ailments, didn't know what she had, didn't need to know because I didn't want it to work against my thinking. So the word over here was, "May the comfort in a portion of the Holy Spirit be yours." I had never really used that paraphrase like that before. And she even told me later, she said, "I thought that was kind of a lame statement. You had been prophesying to everybody all night long, and I get this statement." But I said to them, "Don't go back and sit down until you have faith has entered your heart. I want you to see yourself pain-free without that. Look for the glory. Do not look for the pain." A lot of times people say, what you were hurting, try moving that part, and all they do is look for the pain. And I said, "I want you to see what it looks like for you to be healed. You can live without it. You can live within Him, within His imagination." And so she stayed there a long time, went back to her seat, and started feeling things happening in her body. She went back to the doctor. She was so debilitated, taking heavy medication, having difficulty just doing small functions for her family on a regular basis. She was not able to really do anything publicly. And so she knew something was happening in her body differently. Went back to the doctor, convinced him to do another MRI. They said, no, we got the diagnosis. She pressed him to do it. And there they had the diagnosis. On that screen was before and after. The lesions were there before with the MS, and afterwards, there was no lesion. They took another one just to make sure the equipment was not malfunctioning, because she could once again see herself as she was before she had MS. SID: How does this scripture, what does this mean to you? Jesus made the statement: "I only do what I see my Heavenly Father doing." How does that play into this? KERRY: Well it's not just a metaphor because we think, well you know, he's Jesus. But Philippians 2 says that he was all God and all man. He functioned as we do. And so that Jesus could have the ability to see what God was doing. I believe that he was seeing God heal people, and so he just simply walked out what he had seen. When they told him, his disciples came and said Lazarus was dead, instead of panicking and running down there real quick, he stayed more days where he was, because he saw something they didn't see. And with imagination, when you function with being able to see that God has a plan even in the midst of chaos and confusion, He will walk you through it and you can be at peace. Because imagination helps you to see what He sees, not get caught up in that momentary fixated panic and we have to do something, and we start trying to trust our own feelings. Then Jesus goes down there and he calls Lazarus out because he had already seen what the Father wanted to do. SID: Now you say you have a lot of fun. I like this. He has a lot of fun in his quiet time. What do you do that gives you so much fun? KERRY: I think it's the religiosity is when people try hard to get something from God, and when they do, they just get a brain freeze. I don't try to go in and get something from God. I know that He has something for me. But the Bible says, when you delight yourself in the Lord, He'll give you the desires of your heart. So I just ask him, give me the desire in my heart, but I want it to be your desire you placed there. Because if I don't have the right desires, because Mark 11:24 says, "Whatsoever you desire when you pray." A lot of people pray and they don't have no

5 5 desire in their heart. They're just praying. I'm not coming with a grocery list of, God, I've got to do this, I have to have these things and please, please, please. I simply just want to delight in Him. And He begins to give me images or these photographs, if you will, they're kind of flashes that just come through the mind, and I have to learn how to grab hold of them and capture those thoughts so that they become realities from Him. SID: But what if you're just starting and you don't have those pictures coming in your mind? What would you suggest someone do? KERRY: Then I would just simply, as if you were going to want to talk to a friend, say, "Jesus I love you. I m here." Because it's all out of intimacy. I'm not trying to get a message. I'm not trying to get you to do something for me. I simply want that impartation of the communion and fellowship being with you. And then somehow or another, it just begins to come. And take a tablet with you and start writing these things down, and these images. I keep one beside my bed. And sometimes in the middle of the night I'll get up and write them down, because I don't know if I'm dreaming or I'm seeing a picture, because I'm half awake or half asleep. And so in those times, the Lord will give me things that are going to happen in the future, but I don't understand right at that moment. So grab hold of those things and we can teach you how to discern between something, whether it's a vain imagination or a godly imagination. SID: Now I know a man that literally takes the miracles of the Bible and sees himself in his imagination doing the same thing, and then he goes out to, say, Africa or India, or just in the U.S., and he sees it happening. He attributes to his imagination of him doing what Jesus said, "You'll do the same works I've done and even greater." So is that kosher? Is it okay to do that? KERRY: In Matthew 5, Verse 28, Jesus, when he's teaching on the Sermon on the Mount, he makes the statement that a lot of times we never equate this. He's talking about adultery. He said, "If a man looks upon a woman to lust after her he has committed adultery already in his heart." Well that was different than Moses' law, which was after you catch him then you stone. But Jesus is saying it's different now. So I was reading that and I was thinking, if that's true with sin, that's true with adultery, why couldn't it be true that if a man sets his heart upon the Lord and the beauty of God, and all that God has in store for him, that could become a reality in his heart as well. Because what fell in the Garden in the Original Sin, Jesus came to restore what was lost in that garden and he wants to restore us to say, I have these things for you if you can see what I see. SID: I have an idea that some of you can't wait until I start operating in the power of imagination. But wait until you hear this new revelation that Kerry got. I have to tell you, it's dramatically changed my life. Don't go away. [commercial] We now return to It s Supernatural.

6 6 SID: Hi. Sid Roth here with Kerry Kirkwood. Some of you are trying desperately to sell your homes. Others have businesses. They want to sell their business. And in the times we're living in, some of you have just said, I'm never going to be able to do that. That's not true. God says, all things are possible. All means all. All things are possible to those who believe. Kerry, tell me about that woman that had, for three years she tried to sell her business. KERRY: Her name was Barbara. She sent me this after getting a hold of the teaching on the power of imagination. And she had her business listed with a broker that sold businesses, and she needed to sell the business desperately because of the financial burden it had. And she said it wasn't something that someone was just going to walk in and take because it was not a business that was happening. So she began to see that God wanted her to sell the business. Instead of looking at all the problems with the economy and looking at what the broker had told her, and all the feelings that were adverse against what she was doing, she began to see in her heart with the picture in her mind someone was going to come and buy the business. And it was just a matter of a couple of days after that, a guy contacted her and says, "I want to buy your business for cash and I'm not even going to negotiate the price. Here it is." And they closed within less than the amount of time she would have. She ed me and said, "I want you to know this really works. This is not just theory. This is a reality." SID: Now I have to ask this question. Which came first, the chicken or the egg? In other words, did she hear from God and then imagine what she heard from God or did she read in the Bible and imagine the promise of what she read in the Bible, as far as selling her business? KERRY: Well the images were coming, but she dismissed it as, it's just me. SID: So the images were coming from God, but she thought it was herself. KERRY: Yeah, because she dismissed it as a bad pizza thing or whatever kind of thing. But when she realized that she can capture the thoughts of God, because in 2 Corinthians 10, we say to pull down those fortresses, thoughts, and take captive every thought. The word "captive" means at the point of the spear. Take captive those thoughts, and when our obedience is completed, then there's a punishment against the enemy for the disobedience. So I was thinking, you know, we always use that verse in Scripture about bad thoughts. You know, we got to get rid of those bad thoughts and pull them down. Well why not if there's thoughts of God that He's trying to speak to us, that Jesus saw what God wanted to do, then we can capture those thoughts and those images that God says, "Here's something I have in store for you. Here's a benefit. Here's what I have for you and your family." But we dismiss it. It's just too big. If it's too good to be true it's usually not. Once you capture those thoughts and recognize that they are godly then you learn how to function and cooperate with the power of the Holy Spirit. SID: God spoke to you one day and said, "Kerry, I'm going to give you the solution to every problem." And God is going to speak through Kerry right now and give you the solution to every problem.

7 7 KERRY: I was on the way to the office, just a regular day. And I just asked the Holy Spirit, I said, "I'd like a nugget just to give to my staff. They work hard and I love teaching in that environment." And I was surprised when I heard the Holy Spirit say inside of my heart, saying, "I'm going to give you something that you can make application to every problem that you'll ever face." I was pretty perplexed and astonished by that. I thought, I need to pull over and write this down. And this is what He said to me: "In order to shrink the problem, you've got to magnify the solution." And I knew that Psalms 34 said, "O magnify the Lord with me." And the word "magnify" means to make larger, to overshadow bigger than everything else. SID: Our tendency is to do the exact opposite. We magnify and we let overshadow all the problems, and then we have a pity party. And Kerry, what you're saying is God is saying, you're doing it in reverse. KERRY: Exactly. SID: You're actually making a problem for yourself. KERRY: Well you go to the doctor and he says you got high blood pressure. Next thing is you think about it and you make it bigger than it is, and after you've told 10 people it's bigger than what the doctor said... SID: All right, so what would do if a doctor said to you, you have high blood pressure. What would do? KERRY: Well then I would turn around and magnify the Lord God, the one who did not give me high blood pressure. So I would magnify that solution and magnify Him. Like a couple sitting around the table and saying, look at our checkbook. We don't have any money here, and the kid says, I need this. We don't have the money, and we just tell everybody I'm broke, I don't have anything. Then we know that God who He is, He's the God who supplies everything, all of our needs in Christ Jesus. So if we magnify Him then it releases Him. Because there's a scripture that says, in the old ancients, the old Jewish ancients believe this. However we declared His name he would manifest Himself in the same way. As His name is, so is His praise. So as I praise Him and magnify Him, He manifests Himself in the way that I'm praising. So if I'm over here magnifying the devil for taking all my money and striking my body, and winning out against me, then what I've done is that I have shrunk God and I've magnified the problem. SID: You know, there's such a presence of God. Very briefly, God told you some things that are going to happen this year. Tell me. KERRY: I've been looking for this year since 2010, that there is going to be a transfer of wealth. And wealth comes in two different ways, not just financially. The Bible says, "I blessed you with all spiritual blessings in Christ Jesus." That is a wealth to be able to spiritually discern and know the heart and the mind of Christ, and of God. Then we understand that, then that is a wealth to us. In the same way, I believe that towards the end of 2012, the last quarter, not everybody, but there is going to be a transfer of wealth because there's people that have heard God two years ago about stewardship and sowing, and those have been obedient to that. That 2012 is a year of

8 8 harvest for souls. But it's also a harvest for those who have been sowing financially and believing God for supernatural things. SID: And for you that haven't been sowing, it's not too late. It's the end of the year that Kerry said. And when we go off the air, I want you to use your sanctified imagination, and I want you to start magnifying God's promises, and stop praying your problem. Start praying how great God is. You get it? I hope the light bulbs are going off for you. [pause] SID: Next week on It s Supernatural. My guest has seen millions of people, I mean millions of people healed. And he says it's so easy, you can do it, too.