TRANSCRIPT HESTER G. McFADDEN. Otha Jennifer Dixon: For the record please state your name.

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1 Interviewee: Interviewer: Otha Jennifer Dixon Interview Date: Sunday, June 22, 2008 Location: Fatz Café Charleston, South Carolina Length: Approximately 26 minutes TRANSCRIPT HESTER G. McFADDEN Otha Jennifer Dixon: For the record please state your name. : I am. I live here in Charleston, South Carolina. This is my home. I ve spent some time in North Carolina working there, but my home is Charleston. OJD: What year were you born if you don t mind telling me? HGM: Certainly, I was born July 31, OJD: Your parents lived in Charleston? HGM: Actually, my father is from Georgetown, South Carolina and my mother, who s now deceased, her home was here in Charleston. OJD: What did your parents do? HGM: My father was an independent cement finisher. He owned his own business; owned a small business. And my mother was a housewife, a domestic engineer. OJD: You left Charleston when? [Interruption] HGM: I left Charleston in my husband got a transfer with his job, General Electric. My family left the city and we went to Wilmington, North Carolina and resided there for approximately eighteen years.

2 OJD: There s a GE here in Charleston? HGM: The GE here closed. Yeah. Of course he was one of those (1:30) engineers who was able to get a job and move, transfer. OJD: Tell me about what life was like growing up here in Charleston. [Interruption] HGM: Life in Charleston was really a wonderful experience growing up. There are eight of us. I have seven siblings. My parents always tried to instill within us a sense of pride, a sense of faith, a sense of service, and community. Growing up I attended Liberty Hill Elementary school. I graduated from Bonds-Wilson High School in I was plesantly blessed to have won a scholarship to Voorhees College. OJD: Where is that? HGM: Voorhees is in Denmark, South Carolina. Got a full scholarship that paid for everything. Wanted to experience and experienced quite a bit of racism in Charleston but was fine overall. Went to what was called the Cooper River library. It was the beginning of the integration of public facilities. I entered the library and there were some white students who were researching and sitting at a table. It was not common to see a black student going in to do research. So I when I went these guys were snickering and giggling. I went to the shelf to get a book. I just perused the shelves to get a book. By the time I got back to my chair and sat down, I sat on a couple of tacks. They planted the tacks in my chair and looked to get a reaction. But if I d reacted I could have been arrested. I know the tacks came from the lady at the desk who took them off the bulletin board and gave them to the boys so that I could react. So I that if I would have reacted I could have been arrested and that would mean I couldn t keep coming to the library. So what I did was, it hurt, obviously, but, it hurt my pride more so than anything else. 2

3 So I got up, gathered the tacks, placed them on the table, and open the book proceeded to read which spoiled their attempt to have me thrown out of the library. I remember those kinds of things that we had to encounter in Charleston. You just have to triumph over that. I also remember working for a white lady in area that was called North Charleston. Her name was Ms. Martha Turner, I ll never forget. I worked in this lady s house for, all day for a period of the entire day. I did a really good job. I cleaned everything, ironed. At the end of the day she went to her purse and counted out ninety-nine pennies. She gave me ninety-nine cents and told me that I needed to go home then. I walked in an area that was called Park Circle. Walked all the way home because I was so angry and so hurt that I didn t even catch the bus coming home. Got home to my father with my tears in my eyes, he said, you will never work as a domestic worker again in your life. That was the beginning of me seeing things in a different light in terms of Charleston and I determined that I would go to college. OJD: How old were you then? HGM: I think I was around thirteen at that time. It was common for young girls to work in the homes of white families. OJD: Were you in Charleston during what is considered the traditional time period of the Civil Rights Movement? HGM: Oh most definitely. In fact my high school, it was our graduating class or the eleventh grade class when they were now beginning to integrate high schools. The high school that was I going to be going to was North Charleston High School. I was asked as were several individuals to transfer from Bonds-Wilson High School to North Charleston. I refused to because I didn t want to do it. I wanted to complete my education at Bonds-Wilson. I loved my high school. I loved my alma mater. I loved the teachers there because they nurtured us. I 3

4 decided not to go. One young man who was a good friend of mine, his was name was Seth Whipper. Mrs. Whipper s son. OJD: Lucille Whipper? HGM: Lucille Whippper s son. He and I are good friends. I admired him for doing so. He s now a member of the House of Representatives and an attorney, but in this case we had this idea that we wanted to change things in our surroundings. We just didn t want things to remain status quo. We were about trying to bring about change not only for us but mainly for our parents, who worked from sun-up to sun-down and who were not appreciated for their work. We weren t about trying to leave a legacy, it was about trying to change our surroundings and our environment. OJD: Were parents political involved? HGM: My father was to some extent. He was involved in voter registration. Very vocal in the church as far as trying to get people to organize. In fact, he always said that because he saw racism first-hand and because of that he ventured into his own business and hired other young men to have (6:56) and to develop a sense of pride. OJD: Now you went to college at Voorhees, how different was --? Denmark, South Carolina, you said? How different was that environment? HGM: Just the same, in fact, even more so. OJD: This was during what time period? HGM: This was in the nineteen sixties, late nineteen sixties. Even more so, to some extent, because it was a small rural town and for black kids to be attending this top small college trying to assert themselves didn t spend well with people in the community. I remember when my father was taking me up to Voorhees, I remember this very vividly, my father pulled into a 4

5 gas station just in Denmark, South Carolina. It was a Sunday afternoon and there were college students getting ready to go onto college campuses. We pulled into the service station and there was one gentlemen, he came around the corner saw my father and said, What do you want, boy? I m not selling you no gas today. Luckily, we were able to make it on campus with just a little bit of gas left. My father just didn t say anything to the man. He said for us to get back in the car. The silence told us something as we were driving from the station on campus, very proud man. OJD: Your high school, was it predominately black? HGM: Yes, all black. All black. OJD: Voorhees, what kind of --? HGM: Predominately black. All black. Until we got some exchange students. It was an all black college started by, at the turn of the century, liberal whites who started Voorhees College from New Jersey, New York and they got together and started a college. It was one of those schools that was started after the days of Reconstruction, turn of the century, post-slavery. OJD: So, you left Voorhees and went where? HGM: Left Voorhees --. OJD: After you graduated? HGM: After I graduated. I came back to Charleston. Graduated in three years because I was determined that I was gonna get out of school, work, and help my family. I came home and got married. I worked for a telephone company for a short period of time. I began teaching at Manpower Training Center for pipe-fitters teaching basic ed. Then I got my first job working at Hanahan High School. I ended up going to the Citadel. I got my Master s from the Citadel because of my old high school teacher. Her name was Mrs. Elizabeth Alston. She inspired me 5

6 to research the history, in fact, when I was at Voorhees I changed my major from business to history. I have a love of history and decided that I would pursue that. When I went to the Citadel I wanted to go into the area of Special Education. I ended up getting a Master s in Special Education. Of course, I wasn t taking the history as much but I was fascinated with how children learn and compensating to those who had special needs problems. That s why I pursued that area. [Interruption] OJD: You were in Charleston in the early seventies? How different was life from before you went to college? HGM: Oh, very different. I have seen tremendous changes as far as opportunity is concerned, however, there is still an underlying current of racism that still prevails. You can change situations but you can t change people s hearts. Racism has always, not just for persons who are perpetrators of hatred but people who are the recipients of those kinds of feelings. Very often it helps to also see those persons who are at the other end racism. I see that being the problem in Charleston. Very often people who have been here have never ventured anywhere else. They often don t seem themselves as being able to be partakers in any other way of life or reaching certain heights. They very often sometimes settle because in their minds they ve settled, they don t see ways of getting out, and they just can t see another kind of lifestyle. So for that reason, it s really harmed a lot of people in various generations. I also see a sense of pride here. There are a lot of people who are extremely prideful. A kind of fetish is necessary here. You have to be a native Charlestonian to understand it. People coming from the outside don t see it. There is a sense of helping one s neighbor without receiving accolades and adornments. That comes out of our heritage and our history. That is you help your neighbor, 6

7 regardless. That s necessary. I also see a tremendous progress in Charleston because we have a city that s growing in population, growing economically even though wages are still very low. But I see people coming from the outside, I don t know what the percentage of the outsiders is but they are bringing their talents --. They are professional people and they are bringing about changes. Very often they bring about changes for themselves (12:30) that change is coming. OJD: When I read or have read about what women in Charleston have been doing in terms of the Tobacco Strike, the Hospital Strike including the things that I don t know anything about that women have been involved in, that they spearheaded, that they carried through. How has Charleston responded to women s activism, women s involvement politically? HGM: Politically, it has been slow to accept women on certain levels as far as a hierarchy is concerned. But the fact still remains that people understand that women have been the backbone of the struggle here in Charleston. That s been an accepted phenomenon in Charleston, whether people agree with it, understand it, accept it or whatever but that s just the makeup of Charleston. OJD: In that same spirit, thinking about the way that women have been involved. Knowing for myself, the way that you have been instrumental in pushing forth African American History and pushing forth the issues that are important to you in getting change to come about. Looking at the generations to come because you have been a high school teacher for almost thirty-eight years, what do you see changing here in Charleston. Are women --? Are young people as involved, politically? Are they as active as your generation and generations before you? HGM: I don t see that, unfortunately. Part of the problem is that my generation worked so hard for this generation to see and enjoy the fruits of our labor and to be the recipients of these 7

8 changes economically, politically, socially. For that reason, very often, I think we have lost something. We ve lost that connection. Because even though this is true for a lot of them this is certainly not true of all young people. The recipients, often they don t understand the struggle. They can t appreciate the struggle. They would simply sometimes say well I would not have taken this. I would not have gone through that not understanding that it takes so much when you have peace in mind, to make inroads, a walk that they don t understand. Not understanding and not just talking and being able to take up that baton, they don t understand their role or what they have to do to take it to the next level. I think that is what brings us the greatest disappointment. But all is not lost. I think that certain kinds of (15:26) folk that would say that there are young people who want to do something to better themselves, better their families, and have a future. Each generation has its own kind of struggle and within that we re going to make it. Our young people are going to make it. As the saying goes, winners don t stop OJD: I want to go back to the Civil Rights Movement for a moment. I m trying to get a sense of what the Civil Rights Movement looked like in Charleston. I know in Durham and cities like that there were sit-ins, in Greensboro there were sit-ins. What was going on in Charleston in terms of the Civil Rights Movement? HGM: In terms of Civil Rights, a lot of what was happening, of course there were marches but not the extent that they were in other cities. There were subtle ways that we brought about changes here because we recognized that perhaps, maybe that may have been more physical harm done, more people losing their jobs and not being able to take care of their families. For that reason they were all kind of subtle changes. There was also a thrust in changing the laws. Moreso than anything else we can affect by changing the laws than changing situations as they existed depending on the climate. It would have been more successful as 8

9 opposed to protesting. We did have sit-ins. We did have protest marches, etc., but not to the extent that there were in other areas. [Interruption] OJD: How old were you during the Civil Rights Movement? HGM: How old was I? When the Civil Rights Movement started I was already in college. OJD: So you weren t really involved in the Movement here? HGM: No. No, because I was away at college. In fact, in college I got involved in what was happening on Voorhees campus. It was a time when young people were involved in an entrée of things. (17:31) When we were on campus our campus was shut down, we were very much involved in that. We were very much involved in that. I remember Stokley Carmichael came on campus. We were trying to involve ourselves in the struggle there helping to register voters and potential voters; getting involved in that work there. It was really during the heyday of the Vietnam era and Civil Rights Struggle so there were so many things happening. [Interruption] OJD: Considering being in the public high school the public school system for thirtyeight years, in different locations, and having been in Charleston for so many years. How has Charleston been impacted by Civil Rights Movement at this point? Has it been a negative impact? Have you seen great change here to the point where you can say that we are past all of the issues that we were facing during that time? HGM: Ok, the first part of your question about the Civil Rights Movement impacting the lives of people here in Charleston. I would say tremendously so. You can compare Charleston as it was in the nineteen sixties, late nineteen fifties, nineteen sixties, and late sixties things have changed so much in the area of employment and opportunities. Just sometimes the mindset that 9

10 has existed between blacks and whites that s it s miserable. However, even though we have been impacted positively as far as helping us to segue into society and gain some inroads at this point and time we still have a long row to hoe, so to speak. Because, economically speaking, our people are still suffering tremendously so. I think at this point and time we need to turn our attention to the political, political and economic empowerment. Economic empowerment in order to address those issues and concerns that center on equality and that s going to not be a part of who are and what we are trying to do as a people. So it requires that we understand that if your brothers prioritize for his race then you must also. Forge some things, materialistically speaking. Unless you have someone, unless you empower someone so that we will be able to subscribe to for themselves (20:36) and for sure these children are going to be affected by that in terms of economic status because of their children s plight. You ve got people who are the haves and people who are the have-nots. That economic divide still remains as another disparity. I think at this point time we need to focus on economics. We need to focus on true education for young people because part of the problem today is that our young people don t see that they can make these strides economically within the present structure of the school system. For that reason, that is why almost sixty percent of our young people are dropping out of high school. That is a travesty. That is so sad. Because their lives are (21:25), not just in South Carolina but South Carolina is very often, when you see it, a microcosm of what is happening throughout the rest of society. So we ve got to make these strides in the area of education, equal education, equal access to education. We can t have a school that is impoverished and one that is a state-ofthe-art school. [Interruption] OJD: As you were saying. 10

11 HGM: Unless we address those issues and those concerns we re certainly at an impasse. And also the responsibility lies, not only with the powers that be, but also with the black family. Because (22:15) and the heart of the black family. The difficult task, as far as our families are concerned, single parents, and there s nothing wrong with single parenting, but the responsibility has to also be placed on the shoulders of our males, taking on the responsibility for strong black males. Making certain that the family is taken care. That the wife and the husband are together in a physical environment still have the responsibility to make certain that this child is nurtured, educated, and taken care of. We have got to come together as a people and we ve got to come together individually, not only in our churches, not just on Sundays (23:01). We ve got to go out beyond the churches in order for people to understand completely that we ve got a responsibility. We ve got a spiritual responsibility, we ve got physical responsibility, we ve got a moral responsibility to do what s best and in the interest of our children and our families. It s us individually, we can t just sit back and expect people to hand us certain things. No one is going to hand us anything. We ve got to go out and get it. And in getting, as the Lord says, we ve got to get in the midst of an understanding. Understanding dictates that we ve got to educate ourselves. We ve got to study to show ourselves approved. We ve got to be ready to take on those tasks as far as being fully informed. If someone s not willing to hear us then we can go out and we can be extremely creative. We can develop our own jobs. Develop our own enterprises. Develop our own corporations. We ve got to do that as other races have done also. We expect anything to just come to us. We are creative beings. God has made us creative beings. We ve got to shoulder that responsibility. So that s where I see us now as a people. We have got to look at our situation honestly. Not just look at things through rose-colored glasses. We ve got to look at things fully as they are. We don t look fully at educating our children economically and 11

12 spiritually. Not just looking at us as people, we have to be global in our scope. Not just focus on the (24:44). OJD: Is it safe to say that struggle continues? That we haven t gotten there yet? HGM: No we haven t. We re striving. Made some gains, tremendous gains. Can not negate that, because we ve had some people who have given their lives for us to be at this point in our lives. But we still have to pass the baton on to our children. OJD: Have you done that Mrs. McFadden? Are your kids--? Have you impressed upon them the importance of taking on this mantle? HGM: My children most definitely. I have a son who owns his own business. I have a daughter who is going into the area of science and medical research. I have another son in Atlanta who has a part-time business, and also striving to help his friends and family to take responsibility for themselves. In fact, we re passing this on to our granddaughter and helping to realize that she s got to start now. We don t allow her to plop in front of the television set. We want her to learn connective learning and to love learning. And the whole point is for us to be life-long learners. Not only to be life-long learners but also to help each other because we are all a part of this fabric. OJD: Thank you so much. HGM: You are quite welcome. END OF INTERVIEW Transcribed by Otha Jennifer Dixon July 15,

TRANSCRIPT ROSETTA SIMMONS. Otha Jennifer Dixon: For the record will you state your name please. RS: Charleston born. Mt. Pleasant, South Carolina.

TRANSCRIPT ROSETTA SIMMONS. Otha Jennifer Dixon: For the record will you state your name please. RS: Charleston born. Mt. Pleasant, South Carolina. Interviewee: Interviewer: Otha Jennifer Dixon TRANSCRIPT ROSETTA SIMMONS Interview Date: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 Location: Local 1199B Office Charleston, South Carolina Length: Approximately 32 minutes