STATE OF NEW HAMPSHIRE HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY SUPERIOR COURT NORTH ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) Plaintiffs, Defendants.

Transcription

1 EXHIBIT B

2 STATE OF NEW HAMPSHIRE HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY SUPERIOR COURT NORTH LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS OF NH, ET AL., vs. Plaintiffs, WILLIAM M. GARDNER & GORDAN MACDONALD, Defendants. Superior Court Case No. --CV-00 Manchester, New Hampshire August, :0 a.m. APPEARANCES: HEARING ON PETITION FOR DECLARATORY JUDGMENT BEFORE THE HONORABLE KENNETH C. BROWN JUDGE OF THE SUPERIOR COURT For the Plaintiffs: William E. Christie, Esq. S. Amy Spencer, Esq. SHEEHAN & GORDON, P.A. P.O. BOX 0 Storrs Street Concord, NH 00 - and - Bruce V. Spiva, Esq. Amanda R. Callais, Esq. John Devaney, Esq. 00 th Street, NW Suite 00 Washington, DC and - Henry R. Klementowicz, Esq. Steven J. Dutton, Esq. MCLAINE MIDDLETON 00 Elm Street th Floor Manchester, NH 0 - and - Paul J. Twomey, Esq. PAUL TWOMEY LAW OFFICE Brimstone Hill Road Epsom, NH 0

3 fact, it was kind of told by the -- MS. ARROYO: Objection, Your Honor. Is she testifying to her own conclusion or the conclusion of others? MR. DEVANEY: Her conclusion. THE COURT: Well, let her say that. MS. ARROYO: Confusion, excuse me, her confusion. THE COURT: Was it your confusion or others? THE WITNESS: I left the meeting very confused. THE COURT: Okay. THE WITNESS: Yeah. BY MR. DEVANEY: Q You have in front of you a notebook of exhibits. Can I ask you please to look at Exhibit number in that tab, which will also be on the screen here? A Okay. Q And I know you're familiar with this form. This is voter registration form B, correct? A Yes. Q And you have seen this form many times before, correct? A Yes, I have. Q And based on your experience working with voters that you've described, what is your impression of this form and how voters will react to it? A I have several -- I have, quote, a few concerns about this form.

4 MS. ARROYO: Objection. Lack of foundation. THE COURT: I think she laid the foundation. THE WITNESS: Okay. I had quite a few concerns about this form. About some of the confusing aspects of it. I guess the place that I have the most specific concern would be on page and that's where the voter -- the potential voter is being asked to place their initials either on the first line or the second line indicating whether they have documents -- so this is the voter who is arriving to register without documents in hand about domicile. So they're then given two options. And the first is, to say that they have available to them documents, but they're not in their possession. So these are documents that exist but that they don't have them with them. Or secondly to check the second line which is saying that they're not aware that those documents exist. So not only do they not have them with them, but that those documents actually don't exist. And my confusion here has to do with the document that is in association with this and I'm sorry, I always forget the name of it, the list of -- BY MR. DEVANEY: Q Would you look at Exhibit please, which is verifiable action of domicile form. A Yes. So the verifiable action of domicile form. So if I'm presented this to show the different types of things that I

5 0 might choose, I may have those or not. But where my concern comes in is if I'm somebody who is living at a friend's house or a parent's house or somewhere where I don't have any of these other documents and I'm not on the lease and I'm not the landlord or such, that as I read down through the different types of things and come to a conclusion that I don't have them, it then says, if you have no other -- MS. ARROYO: Objection. Your Honor, speculation as to what a potential voter might think or feel confused by. THE COURT: Sustained. BY MR. DEVANEY: Q You can express your own concern about the language. A Okay. So my concern about the language -- what I find confusing about the bill, about this language is that it says on the one hand that you are -- if your name is not listed on the rental agreement, lease, or deed, you are required to provide a written statement signed under penalty of voting fraud if false information is provided, et cetera. So then if I go back to the other form, and I was thinking, oh I don't currently have anything in my possession, but it's telling me if I don't have that form, I'm required to produce it. Does that mean then that I'm excluded from checking the second line, which says that I acknowledge that I am aware of no documentary evidence of actions? So I don't have the documentary evidence, so I would think I could check

6 that box, but on the other hand, I'm being told that I'm required to produce this statement from my landlord or from some other person who controls the property that I live at. Q Was that ambiguity you just described, that you perceived as ambiguity addressed in any of the training sessions you've attended? A That ambiguity, that was not at the training session. There was ambiguity at the training session about what type of form that the person would need to bring with them and whether that was -- needed to be a notarized form or not. Q Did you have any personal experience with whether the form from a landlord or an owner of property needs to be notarized? A So this has remained a personal concern of mine. I find it one of the more concerning parts of the bill. And so when I went into register my car this July at City Hall in Concord, I decided to stop in the city clerk's office and ask about what was -- MS. ARROYO: Objection. Your Honor, relevance. THE COURT: What's the relevance? MR. DEVANEY: Your Honor, the relevance is to show that there is confusion among election officials about what this landlord form needs to look like and what it needs to contain, based on our own personal experience. THE COURT: I'm going to allow it.

7 THE WITNESS: So I inquired what a person was to do if they lived somewhere where they were not on the lease or they didn't own the property and didn't have other forms of proof of domicile, what would be required of them to be able to register to vote. And I was told that -- MS. ARROYO: Objection, Your Honor. Hearsay. THE COURT: I'm not so sure it's offered for the truth of the matter asserted. MR. DEVANEY: That's my response, Your Honor. You can continue. MS. ARROYO: I think that, Your Honor, it's talking about what the confusion is. THE COURT: She's still objecting. MS. ARROYO: The truth of the matter that would be establish is that there is confusion. THE COURT: In her mind. It's the -- MS. ARROYO: In the mind of the local election official as well, though, that she's spoken with. THE COURT: Your response? MR. DEVANEY: It shows he frame of mind of the clerk. It's not being offered for the truth of the matter asserted. In fact, it's not true. And it shows the frame of mind of the person who is -- THE COURT: I'm going to allow it. THE WITNESS: So I was told that a notarized

8 statement would be required. I was not given a form of what that might look like, but I was told that it would need to be notarized and this was by the person at the front desk who went into the back office to inquire and get confirmation of that. I have to say I was surprised. Again, I have in my years in Concord, been very impressed by the -- how Concord conducts its elections and I know they make due diligence to try to do it in the right and proper way. So I was surprised that they would tell me this because I knew that it was not a requirement of SB. MR. DEVANEY: Your Honor, I'm mindful of the Court, I think you had a hard stop at :0. We have probably or minutes more of direct. So I just wanted to tell you. THE COURT: Yeah, I -- I'm sorry, I had let everyone know that I have -- I have a doctor's appointment in Concord to have my ear looked at. THE WITNESS: Okay. I'm so sorry. THE COURT: No, I'm kidding. So I had let them know I have to break a little early. THE WITNESS: Okay. THE COURT: So we're going to see you tomorrow. THE WITNESS: Okay. THE COURT: Is that all right? THE WITNESS: Sure. THE COURT: Okay. Thank you.

9 CERTIFICATE I, Tami S. Mayes, a court-approved proofreader, do hereby certify that the foregoing is a correct transcript from the official electronic sound recording of the proceedings in the above-entitled matter, to the best of my professional skills and abilities. TRANSCRIPTIONIST(S: Tami S. Mayes, CET- Erin Perkins, CET-0 Kim Ganzert, CDLT- Jean Knowlton, CDLT- Kari Frillici, CDLT- Amanda Ricker, CDLT- Bonnie Torrez, CDLT- Aliza Chodoff, CET- Melissa Looney, CET-0 Brenda Wakelin, CDLT- Amanda Self, CDLT- Tami S. Mayes, CET- August 0, Proofreader

10 STATE OF NEW HAMPSHIRE HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY SUPERIOR COURT NORTH LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS OF NH, ET AL., vs. Plaintiffs, WILLIAM M. GARDNER & GORDAN MACDONALD, Defendants. Superior Court Case No. --CV-00 Manchester, New Hampshire August 0, : a.m. APPEARANCES: HEARING ON PETITION FOR DECLARATORY JUDGMENT BEFORE THE HONORABLE KENNETH C. BROWN JUDGE OF THE SUPERIOR COURT For the Plaintiffs: William E. Christie, Esq. S. Amy Spencer, Esq. SHEEHAN & GORDON, P.A. P.O. BOX 0 Storrs Street Concord, NH 00 - and - Bruce V. Spiva, Esq. Amanda R. Callais, Esq. John Devaney, Esq. 00 th Street, NW Suite 00 Washington, DC and - Henry R. Klementowicz, Esq. Steven J. Dutton, Esq. MCLAINE MIDDLETON 00 Elm Street th Floor Manchester, NH 0 - and - Paul J. Twomey, Esq. PAUL TWOMEY LAW OFFICE Brimstone Hill Road Epsom, NH 0

11 Q And did those voters have evidence of domicile? A They did. Q And, in your view, is that election experience that you had indicative of what can be expected for the midterm elections coming up this November? THE COURT: I'll allow it. MS. ARROYO: Objection; speculation. THE COURT: I'll allow it. THE WITNESS: It -- no. And based on my experience just as a voter, when -- I've been at polls with longer lines, and so, you know, I've had personal experience of other elections apart from my registering voters. BY MR. DEVANEY: Q Thank you. And in your role at Kent Street, do you have many interactions with election officials? A In my role with Kent Street, I'm not quite sure what you mean by that question. Q Okay. Well, did you -- I guess, let me come at it a different way. You did attend Secretary of State training; is that correct? A Yes, I did. I did that in preparation for the -- for working at the polls in Manchester for the election we just discussed. Q And when was that training?

12 A That was in August of. Q Who conducted the training? A It was the Secretary of State's Office. Q And for you, did that training clarify questions you had about the limitation of SB as someone who was going to be registering voters? A I came away, I would say, more confused than with clarity from that particular training. Q What is that? A Many of the people with a lot more experience than I have were asking questions about how the law would be implemented and receiving either -- being told they weren't quite sure what -- what's to be done. Also, at one point, it was mentioned that this was kind of an experiment. MS. ARROYO: Objection; hearsay, Your Honor. MR. DEVANEY: Your Honor, I think that, first of all, these are statements by a party opponent because they were at the Secretary of State's training. And, second, not being offered for the truth of the matter asserted. THE COURT: Ask it -- MS. ARROYO: Your Honor -- THE COURT: -- in a different way. MS. ARROYO: Actually, I think we're fine. BY MR. DEVANEY: Q We'll move on --

13 municipal elections, which I believe are in November, but I'm not even sure about that. The next one, which was a group -- a large training for clerks, moderators, supervisors, and any other election officials -- Q Who put on that training, by the way? A Pardon? Q Who put on that training? A Oh, the -- Q Is that the Secretary of State's office? A The Secretary of State's office. That one, I believe, would have -- was probably in February just before the March elections, the town elections. And -- and then there's one -- it's actually going on now, but I went a couple of weeks ago. They -- they usually have several different times that you can choose from, and in a number of different places across the state. And so I went to one couple weeks ago. Q And focusing on the one you went to a couple of weeks ago, did that -- was that helpful to understanding how to administer SB? A Yes, yes, it was. It didn't answer all the questions, but it was helpful. Q Okay. And was it helpful in terms of learning the types of proof of domicile that you could accept as a

14 the kinds of domicile proof that they showed. Even though there were domicile affidavits then, they were pickier than we were. Let's put it that way. Q So you've come to an understanding based on that that towns do it differently? A Yes. MS. EDWARDS: Objection, Your Honor. Her understanding is one town does it differently. THE COURT: Correct. BY MS. EDWARDS: Q Did you come to an understanding that at least one town does it differently than Durham? A Yes. Q Okay. Let me ask you generally, how will SB affect elections administration in Durham? A We believe -- the three -- well, I guess all of us election officials believe it's going to create more work for us, both before, during, and after an election -- Q Uh-huh. A -- all three. Q Okay. A And -- Q I'll break those up. Why don't you tell us, how will it create more work or impact you before -- A Before?

15 get out the vote, which is fine. But not all of them have all the correct information either. So because we are a college town, as opposed to a town that doesn't have a college and, therefore, they don't need anything special from students, we -- there is a form that college students can -- who live on campus can bring with them, that their RAs can -- or their hall administrators, whatever they're called, can sign for them. However, the students need to be made aware of the fact that these are available. And we can't do that. The UNH officials have to do that. So somehow getting that point across is creating more work for us. At the election -- and I'm -- I'm just talking about this upcoming election. Q Uh-huh. A There's still a November election, which is going to cause even more work than the one coming up. So at the election, we will have to, we believe, explain more things to anyone who comes without a domicile proof. As it is, as I've said before, it takes about five minutes to register someone, depending on what forms they bring or don't bring. If -- in the past, we've had to explain how to fill out a -- or how to fill out one of the affidavits. We still have -- will have to do that. But -- but to explain all the information that a prospective voter needs to know about the domicile part is

16 going to take quite a bit longer. We have to figure out, first, what we're going to say to them, and try to be on the same page with the information, you know, the three or four of us or more than that at the -- at the November election. We have to be pretty much on the same page as to what information we are conveying to those people. If we -- if we -- which maybe we will, but if we simply hand them the verifiable domicile thing -- whatever that's called -- and expect them to read that, they -- that, I would say, that would take another five minutes to -- for them to sit there and read that form while the line is getting longer and longer. So -- Q I'm sorry. I wanted to ask you about something you had just said, but go ahead and finish your answer. A Well, anyway, that's what we think will make -- will create more work for us actually at the election. Because I believe we'll have to find more volunteers, more people, to somehow help those who don't have those proofs understand what they're supposed to do. And we'll have questions that were -- we may not even feel comfortable ask -- answering. Q Okay. Now, let me first ask you, when you say you're going to need to explain more things now that SB is in place, can you just explain what you mean by that? A Well, on the -- if someone doesn't bring -- puts accept -- what we accept as proof of domicile, then we have to turn the page over. We have to turn the registration form

17 0 over. And as I believe you've already -- everybody's already seen, the top half of that explains to somebody what they have to do if they don't have domicile proof with them. That will take -- would take me -- I'm not a fast reader. I can read very well, but I'm not a fast reader. It would take me three or four minutes, at least, to read the top part of that. Then I believe -- Q Sorry. J was -- A I believe that -- it's not that one. It's -- Q Yeah. J, yeah, sorry. A -- page of the voter registration. Q I thought I had it memorized by now, but I clearly did not. A Yeah. Yeah, it's there. I'm sure -- I mean, if we didn't say anything, this would take a while for somebody to read. Q Just so the record's clear, we just brought up J -- what's been marked as joint Exhibit, and specifically, the second page of form B. Is that what you're referring -- A Yes. Q -- to? A Yes. Q Okay. A Yes. Q So, please, go ahead.

18 A And anyway, if we just gave this to them and said, read this, it would take a while for them to read -- read it. I believe they should read it, but I believe it takes them an explanation also. If we don't explain a little bit, they're going to have questions, I would say, no matter what. We -- Q Do you have an understanding from the Secretary of State's office of whether you're supposed to tell people to read the entire form? A I don't believe they've told us that. Q Okay. So go ahead. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt. A That's okay. So -- so anyway, we'll -- I think we'll have to explain that top -- that top half. Q Okay. A Also, there is the verifiable form of -- Q We can pull up for a minute. A -- the other one that you had up there. MR. SPIVA: If we can keep this one on to the side, please, just to make sure we're -- so we're pulling up what's been marked as Joint Exhibit. BY MR. SPIVA: Q Is that the form you're -- A So -- so the -- yes, the form on the right, JE, is -- is not as official as the back of the registration form. This is more of a guide that tells them what kind of information

19 Q -- not to students, but to anybody who is registering to vote? A Yeah, yes. We do. Q Okay. A We expect to. Q Okay. And you had mentioned that before SB was in effect, that it took about five minutes to register a student. Do you have a sense of whether -- first of all, whether it will take longer with SB? A I believe people who don't come with a proof, I can visualize it taking at least another three or four minutes per person. We're trying to think through if there's another way to expedite that, but we haven't come up -- we haven't figured that out yet. But if we didn't have to do this with each person -- and I'm sure -- I'm sure at least half the people will bring proof, but our experience in the past has been that there are a lot who -- who don't have proof. There are -- I mean, we -- we do fully feel that most students, at least students who live in the dorm, can get proof. But we don't know if they will have the knowledge of how to get that proof. Q Well, that raises another question, which is before SB, say let's take the example of the primary election where you had,000 people registering. How many of those people didn't have proof? How many of them had to fill out domicile affidavits?

20 0 A Closer to -- MS. EDWARDS: Your Honor, objection. I believe this is speculation because as Ms. Shump as testified, she hasn't had to register anyone that hasn't had documents. MR. SPIVA: She's charged with administering elections, so she has to anticipate things like this to decide how many volunteers to recruit and that type of thing. MS. EDWARDS: That's a different question then -- MR. SPIVA: It's a question she has to answer, though, to prepare for the elections. I mean, I can ask her the question if you want. THE COURT: I'm going to allow it. BY MR. SPIVA: A Well, now, we -- we guess that it takes probably an average of minutes to -- to register somebody as it is depending on whether or not they have appropriate forms, or they have to fill out other forms. But -- but as -- I think I said this before our break that just reading -- if we, simply, have the person read the back of -- of the -- page of the registration form, that would probably take me at least three -- three or four minutes. And then for them to read, or for us to describe to them what they have to do on the verifiable action of domicile, whatever it's called, would take me another several minutes. So I would -- I would guess it would take another five minutes to get a person -- you know,

21 from the time they sit down and you ask them for their ID until the -- the time they leave, it could take ten minutes to take -- to register that person. Q And I think I forgot to -- A If they -- if they don't have proof. Q And I forgot to ask you this at the beginning, but you had another profession that you retired from recently? A Yes. Q What was that? A I was a paraeducator at -- in -- at the Oyster River school district in one of the elementary schools. Q Okay. And so for someone who maybe doesn't have your literacy skills, it might actually take them longer to read the form? A Well -- MS. EDWARDS: Objection -- THE COURT: Sustained. MS. EDWARDS: -- Your Honor. BY MR. SPIVA: Q I want to ask you about lines in Durham, and specifically, at Presidential elections. What types of lines have you experienced to register people to vote for presidential elections? A There definitely are -- definitely are lines as -- I don't usually get out of the registration room. But the lines

22 are, and that line was probably -- I'm not good with feet or yards, but from here to the door with people probably three or four deep lined up together, however many that would be, probably 0, 0, 0 people at least. In -- actually in the room besides the people who were sitting down being registered at -- at that time. Q Do you have any concerns about what effect the requirements put into place by SB may have on lines in Durham at the next election? A I feel, and the other two supervisors feel, that it's going to slow those lines down because we will have to spend more time explaining to those people who don't have any proofs of domicile what is expected of them. And we're -- obviously, we're still trying to think if there's a way to expedite that, but it -- we -- we believe it's going to slow -- slow the lines down. Q Okay. A Doesn't mean they won't go away. We just believe they'll slow down. Q All right. And sorry, this is kind of, like, a cleanup question; I think I just forgot to ask it. You're aware of the requirement of a verification letter going out to individuals who come without proof of domicile who choose the option -- the no document option? A Yes.

23 had signed the affidavit. But we, at this point, we do know from experience, a lot of people couch surf. They don't necessarily live -- they aren't necessarily on a lease because they aren't really living there totally legally. They might be the sixth person of the three that are allowed to be there. And -- plus, we don't have any way to get in touch with them or to send information to them to let the off-campus students know what kind of information they need to bring. I don't know if the University has that capacity or not. Q And finally, what affect do you anticipate that SB will have on the voters who come to -- need to register in Durham? A I believe that -- we really don't -- I have to say, we don't know for sure. We don't know that it will -- that it will keep people from voting, but we do think the lines -- the slow lines might stop people and make them turn around and we do believe that once we start having to explain the back of the registration form and what they're expected to do with domicile proof that they haven't brought, that that may stop some people from actually registering after they've already stood in line to register to vote. Q Thank you. MR. SPIVA: Thank you. And if I could just have a second to confer, Your Honor. I would like to move PX, the video, into evidence with the conditions that we agreed to.

24 0 I, Tami S. Mayes, a court-approved proofreader, do hereby certify that the foregoing is a correct transcript from the official electronic sound recording of the proceedings in the above-entitled matter, to the best of my professional skills and abilities. TRANSCRIPTIONIST(S: Tami S. Mayes, CET- Kim Ganzert, CDLT- Gina Gattone, CDLT-0 Lisa Hulm, CET- Kari Watford, CET0 Kari Frillici, CDLT- Bonnie Torrez, CDLT- Amanda Self, CDLT- Tami S. Mayes, CET- August, Proofreader

25 STATE OF NEW HAMPSHIRE HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY SUPERIOR COURT NORTH LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS OF NH, ET AL., vs. Plaintiffs, WILLIAM M. GARDNER & GORDAN MACDONALD, Defendants. Superior Court Case No. --CV-00 Manchester, New Hampshire September, : a.m. APPEARANCES: HEARING ON PETITION FOR PRELIMINARY INJUNCTION BEFORE THE HONORABLE KENNETH C. BROWN JUDGE OF THE SUPERIOR COURT For the Plaintiffs: William E. Christie, Esq. S. Amy Spencer, Esq. SHAHEEN & GORDON, P.A. P.O. Box 0 Storrs Street Concord, NH 00 - and - Bruce V. Spiva, Esq. Amanda R. Calais, Esq. John Devaney PERKINS COIE 00 th Street, NW Suite 00 Washington, DC and - Henry R. Klementowicz, Esq. Steven J. Dutton MCLANE MIDDLETON 00 Elm Street th Floor Manchester, NH 0

26 0 MR. SPIVA: 0, Your Honor. She's registered,000 voters in years. That brings unique expertise to the registration process. THE COURT: I think it is sufficient foundation in my mind. You can whittle away at it, if you'd like on crossexamination. MS. EDWARDS: I will, Your Honor. BY MR. SPIVA: Q Would you like me to repeat the question? A I'm fine with it. Q Okay. A My experience is that the form that we're using for registration keeps changing and in response to SB there have been more changes on it, but more additions. People have to fill in more now. It's essentially a grid. It's not just a linear form and people invariably miss things. The more they miss, the longer it takes for the form to be filled in. Q And so how do you believe, based on your experience and what you just described, SB will affect voter lines? A I think the registration process is going to take longer. It has the potential of causing people to wait to register. Q And is same-day registration used in Concord? A Yes, it is.

27 Q And based on your experience, do you think SB will encourage or discourage participation in the voting process? A I think it discourages people because they need to do more, they need to provide more information and it's more cumbersome as a process. Q Are there particular aspects of SB that cause you to believe there will be discouragement of voting? A There are -- the whole process of domicile has become more confusing, frankly. People need to show where they live, I understand that. They're allowed to vote, but if they don't have proof of where they live, they then have to take action after the fact. That's a totally different type of process than we've ever experienced before. I don't know how people will respond and if they will follow through on doing that. Q Would you please open the binder in front of you and go to Joint Exhibit? A Is it under section? Q Just the tab will say. A Okay. Q And you can turn to the second page of that and I'll just say the Court has heard extensive testimony on this, so I just want to be pointed and brief. But you talked about your concerns about confusion and discouraging voters. Are there particular aspects of page of Joint Exhibit that underlie the concerns you've expressed?

28 A So I believe people are familiar with -- under the Domicile section, the individual would initial either the first or the second entry. They're pretty extensive in their wording. I think it's not that easy to understand, personally, and frankly, domicile is not a word in the layperson's language. It's only something that I gather is a legal term. I think the second entry is very confusing. If a person doesn't have an address to fill out on the front, then how can they sign that paragraph, where it says someone will follow up by sending mail or taking other action to verify where they're going to -- what their domicile is? I mean I don't know how to advise somebody on that kind of language and under what circumstances they would put a signature next to that. Q In your years of experience, have you had people who have not had an address that they could list on the front of this form? A Yes, I have. Q Can you describe who those people have been? A So we came through a major recession. And as the urban center for our region and the capital, we had a lot of homeless people. And one population that was fairly new as a homeless group were people who were in their young teens -- or older teens and young s. And our impression -- and this came as the soup kitchen as well -- is that perhaps they had

29 culpable. Q Okay. And with SB in place, do you have the same level of comfort that you've had in the past in instructing voters how to register? A You know, honestly, I know we can do it. We can see it through, and that we can people to fill out the front of the form. But I have to wonder why there's this value that more information is better. There's repetition in it. They're asked to indicate what ward they're in in two different places on this form. We're putting more information on the front than we ever have before. It strikes me as an obstacle instead of a benefit. Q Okay. And are there particular voting populations in Concord that you have concerns about with respect to the impact of SB? A Well, we've talked about homeless people, but there's another population that is growing in Concord. That's the refugee and immigrant population. We've been a receiving community for many years, and many of them have achieved and continue to work towards becoming citizens. And we're seeing more of them coming in and registering to vote, which is a wonderful display of their commitment to their new community. I think the idea that someone could potentially have an official visit their home to verify where they live is a frightening thought. And the reason I say that is when we're

30 Q And where were you a poll worker? A In Ward in Concord -- Q Okay. A -- in the presidential election. Q Can you describe -- that's a paid position? A It is. It's a one-day -- well, I did a half a day paid position. Q Okay. And how much did -- do you recall how much you made as a poll worker in Ward? A I can't exactly remember, but I think it might have been about 0 dollars or 0 dollars, something like that. Q For the whole day? A For the half -- well, the day that started at :0 and went until about. Q Um-hum. And what election was that in? A presidential election. Q Okay. Can you describe that experience? A I was there to help register new voters, and I sat at a table with, at times, one other person and, at times, two other people. And as people came in who needed to register, they came over to our table and I would hand them the form and help them -- explain to them what they needed to do and then send them over to -- if they were approved, send them over to vote. Q And about how long did it take you to register someone

31 to vote? A I think it took about five minutes. Sometimes -- I would have a couple of people working at a time. So one might be filling out a form and the other one was just done. I'd work with them. So my best recollection is about five minutes. Q And how long would it take you to register someone who didn't have proof of domicile? A Not much longer because the -- all they had to do was then put their initials to say that they did live where they said they lived and sign it. Q And this was. So this is obviously before SB was passed? A Right. Q Okay. Let me ask you about the training that you went through to become a poll working, registering voters in Concord. Can you tell me about that? A In Concord, I actually -- my husband and I split a position. And he went in a half-hour early, like :0 or something for the training, and then I got there a half-hour before I was supposed to actually be registering people so that I could watch him and the other people who were registering and kind of learn from them what I needed to do. So it was basically on the job training. And then there was always somebody else there if I had a question.

32 Q But that half-hour, that was all the training that you did? A That was it. Q Okay. That you received for that -- for the Concord poll? A Right. Q And I understand that you have trained to serve as a poll worker in Manchester as well? A Yes. Q Is that right? A Yes. Q Okay. And when did -- have you done that two times? A I've trained two times, yes. Q Okay. And why did you take the training to become a poll worker in Manchester? A Somehow, I became aware that Manchester was looking for people to help out in some of their wards and it was somehow through Kent Street Coalition. I can't remember exactly. And I just thought I would because I know in Concord they -- when I did it in Concord, it was because they were looking for people. It's not always easy to find people, and I just felt it was something I could do. Q Uh-huh. And you -- when did you first -- when did you go to the first training for Manchester? A In -- it was actually September of. It was just

33 0 about a week before the actual primary. Q Okay. And did you actually end up working in the primary in Manchester last year? A Not last year because I had a medical emergency and I -- I was actually in the hospital. Q Okay. Can you tell us about the training that you undertook to work in the primary? A Yes. Q That first time? A The first time there was several of us from Kent Street Coalition were brought -- went together and went to the -- I believe it was at the City Clerk's Office. We sat in a conference room. There were about four or five of us. And the city clerk trained us for about an hour and -- maybe an hour and three-quarters, went through all the aspects of what we'd be doing. Q And you said that was in August of last year? A I believe it was early September last year. Q Was SB part of the training you received there? A Yes, I -- SB was in effect, as I recall, and -- yes, we got the verifiable action -- Q Verifiable action of domicile form? A -- of domicile form. I remember getting that, yes. It wasn't -- there was a lot to cover, so that wasn't a major focus, but it was definitely there.

34 Q And did you say that the other training that you attended in Manchester was last week? A Yes. Q Okay. Can you tell us about the training that you attended last week? A It was also about an hour and three-quarters, I think. It was in a larger room with a lot more people. It was where we were all facing forward and it was more of a planned presentation with slides that we could see. It was a little more formal, but covered pretty much the same ground, I think. Q Uh-huh. Did you raise any questions related to SB at the training you attended last week? A I did. MS. MAYNARD: Objection. Calls for a hearsay answer, Your Honor. MR. SPIVA: I asked her if she raised any question. THE COURT: No, that question -- stand up later. MS. MAYNARD: Okay. I will. THE WITNESS: I did. I asked -- MS. MAYNARD: Objection, Your Honor. THE COURT: She asked. Not -- MS. MAYNARD: I think -- THE COURT: We're not getting to the response yet. THE WITNESS: I -- and can I say what I asked? THE COURT: You can say what you asked.

35 MR. SPIVA: Goes to her motive and working as a poll worker. I m not -- I'm definitely not offering for the truth of the matter asserted. MS. MAYNARD: Your Honor, it is offered for the truth of the matter asserted. MR. SPIVA: Actually, I don't think the statement that she's going to testify to is true or accurate, but -- and I'm not saying her statement is inaccurate, but what she was told, I think was not accurate. So I'm definitely not offering for the truth. MS. MAYNARD: Objection to hearsay, Your Honor. I believe this is going to be offered for the truth of the matter, that election officials -- I mean I don't know what she's going to say, but I suspect it's going to be offered -- THE COURT: Well, let's do this. Let's hear what she's going to say and I'll determine whether I'm going to accept it or not. MR. SPIVA: Okay. And I'm perfectly willing to stipulate that I'm not -- that I'm not offering it for the truth. THE COURT: Well, you'd have to do that to let her. BY MR. SPIVA: Q What instruction did they give you regarding your question? A They said that if the person checks the second -- you

36 know, initials the second option, then they won't even see that verifiable option of domicile paper. If they initial the first one, then you give them that paper and they take it and figure it out. Q And did that allay your concerns about what to tell people as a poll worker? A No, it didn't because it seemed somewhat self-contradictory to me. Q Okay. Did you raise any questions about how much explanation to give people, you know, potential registrants about their choices on the form? A I did. Q What did you ask? A I asked if I should go over that verifiable action of domicile paper with them. Q Sorry. I'm actually not asking about the verifiable action of domicile form, but the registration, the second page of the registration form itself. A Oh, okay. Q Yeah. Did you raise any questions about that? A I don't think I did. Q Okay. About what -- A I had concerns about it, but I didn't raise them there. Q Okay. And just to -- so it's clear, you have an

37 matter, so it's not hearsay, But -- THE COURT: We're getting somewhat distant from where I think this case ought to be at this time. Getting my drift? MR. SPIVA: Okay. Yes, I hear you. Why don't I move on? THE COURT: That's -- very perceptive. It had nothing to do with you. THE WITNESS: No, I'm not offended. MR. SPIVA: Thank you. I appreciate it. I wasn't trying to be Fonzie, I just didn't realize my collar was up. I know Mr. Gould will understand that reference. BY MR. SPIVA: Q So you're going to be registering people to vote in Manchester on Tuesday; is that right? A Yes. Yes. Q Okay. As a poll worker, do you have concerns about registering people using the forms required by SB? A I do. Q Can you tell us what those concerns are? A My -- I'm concerned -- well, my concerns are that I've said -- I think the forms are hard to understand. There are parts that I don't think I totally understand and I have a law degree and I spent years writing and reading legal documents. And there are other parts that I -- that I think

38 also are worded in ways that are difficult. There are -- and there are parts of it that I think are misleading. And if I'm not supposed to spend time helping people understand it, then I feel like I'm put in a position where I don't feel comfortable with that. Now, I feel a little okay with it for this primary because the penalties have been stayed, but I don't think I would do it again if the penalties were back in force because I just -- I think -- well, for those reasons because I -- maybe I can -- Q And so when you said you don't think you would do it if the penalties were in place, you mean you don't think you would actually serve as a poll worker? A No, I wouldn't. Q Okay. A It would be just uncomfortable -- well, I guess I'll wait for you to ask me the next question. Q Yeah. Well, let me ask you because you mentioned that you were concerned that portions of the form are misleading and that that's one of the bases of one of your concerns. What specifically are you alluding to? A If you check the first box, put your initials on the first line and say I agree that I will send in evidence of my domicile and right after that it says something like I understand that if I don't, mail might be sent to my home. Well, that's not the only thing that could happen. Agents

39 could come to your home and you could be -- you could -- you could potentially get a $,000 fine. You could potentially spend a year in jail if you don't send those documents back in, knowingly and purposely you don't. And on the one hand, I don't want to say that to somebody because who's going to register to vote if the person is sitting there saying you might end up in jail? On the other hand, I feel like it's misleading to say if you don't send it in, what's going to happen is you'll get some mail. That's not the only thing that could happen. Q And you mentioned that there was language that was hard to understand, that even you had trouble understanding. Can you give an example of what you mean? A There's a part on the -- on form B that says I understand -- again, I'm paraphrasing. But, I understand that domicile -- Q If you want, I can put the form up. I just -- A I think I can do it. It says I understand that my domicile is that one place from which I participate in democratic self-government, and I don't really know what that means. I mean I suspect -- well, I can't say what I suspect. I don't know what it means. Because, for instance, in May I went to a presentation in Bow. I live in Concord, but I went to a presentation in Bow where the candidates gave talks. I felt like I was participating in government -- you know, in

40 democratic self-government. Two weeks ago, I went door to door canvasing for a candidate in Laconia. I feel like I was participating in democratic self-government when I did that. I vote in Concord and I'm participating there. So I don't feel like I have one place. Now, if it means -- if it means one place where you vote, then it should say that, and the fact that it doesn't say that makes me wonder what it's trying to say. I don't know. It confuses me. Q Do you have concerns about how much explanation -- MS. MAYNARD: Objection. Leading. THE COURT: What concerns, if any, do you have concerning? MR. SPIVA: Thank you, Your Honor. BY MR. SPIVA: Q What concerns, if any, do you have about how much explanation to give people who come to register? A Well, on that particular line, I'm not even sure what to tell them. This -- if you -- if you put your initials on the first option, it says I -- I hereby state, or something, that I have been given a form from the Secretary of State's Office. We were told you give it to them after they've -- MS. MAYNARD: Objection, Your Honor. Hearsay. THE COURT: Hearsay.

41 0 MR. SPIVA: Again, not going for the truth of the matter but what -- you know, how she -- if this is going to her motive for how she's going to register people next week. MS. MAYNARD: Again, her motive is not relevant. MR. SPIVA: It's just context for how -- you know, the basis of her concerns. It's not for the truth of -- THE COURT: I'm going to allow it. MR. SPIVA: Yeah. THE WITNESS: If we're supposed to give them the form after they've checked that off and send them home with it, which was my understanding at the training, I'm concerned that, first of all, people have checked something saying they've received something that they actually haven't, but also that they may not understand everything in that when they get home. BY MR. SPIVA: Q And what about, in terms of which choice to make, the -- I'm going to send the documents back or not, or I have no documents? What concerns, if any, do you have about explaining that portion to people? A Well, I worry that if somebody says, well, I'm pretty sure I have a lease at home, I -- MS. MAYNARD: Objection. Speculation. THE COURT: I'm going to allow it, but keep objecting to remind me how much weight I ought to give the

42 testimony. MS. MAYNARD: Will do. THE WITNESS: My concern is that if somebody is standing in front of me and says I think I have a lease, do I say, well, you better be darn well sure you have a lease because if you don't, there are always possible penalties because you are promising to send it in? And -- or do I suggest that they say I'm unaware, but they aren't unaware because they think they have something. I think there will be -- I -- in preparing for something like this, I do think ahead about what I might I might be confronted with so that I'll be prepared. And I -- often people don't know -- often people will -- MS. MAYNARD: Objection again, Your Honor. Speculation. THE COURT: It is speculation. I'm going to sustain the objection. MR. SPIVA: Okay. I mean these are things that she -- a real live poll worker is going to have to confront next week. I mean -- THE COURT: Maybe. MR. SPIVA: What's that? THE COURT: Maybe. And I'm not so sure this qualifies for opinions under 0, where we are right now. MR. SPIVA: Okay.

43 BY MR. SPIVA: Q Do you have any concerns about giving people advice about their choices on the form? A I do. If -- there's a -- the burden list on the -- on the -- what's the name of that form? Q The verifiable action of domicile form? A Action of domicile form. The list on there is not all inclusive, so other evidence can be acceptable and if somebody asks me about some other kind of evidence that isn't on the list -- MS. MAYNARD: Objection. Speculation. THE COURT: I'm going to allow it. THE WITNESS: So if somebody asks me about some kind of evidence that's not on the list, my concern is that -- THE COURT: Because it's only guide, that's why I'm letting her answer that. MS. MAYNARD: Okay. THE WITNESS: My concern is that it used to be that I would just use my judgment, the way it was in. We were told use your judgment. If it's more reasonable than not, or if you've -- if you are -- if the evidence is greater than not, that you think that this person is domicile there, then you accept it. So I may decide, yes, that sounds reasonable to me, but now the person is going to send it to somebody else, and I don't know if that person is going to agree with

44 me. And so I may need to stop and call the city clerk to find it out because I would feel uncomfortable giving somebody the advice, oh, yeah, that's fine. That will satisfy your legal requirement when I really don't know if it will. BY MR. SPIVA: Q Let me ask you, did either of the two trainings that you attended after SB went into effect, did either of those trainings clear any of this up for you? A No. Q And how will SB effect the time it will take you to register people to vote? MS. MAYNARD: Objection, Your Honor. Lack of foundation and speculation. MR. SPIVA: She's -- she has gone to two trainings and is familiar with the forms and so -- MS. MAYNARD: She's never registered anyone under SB. She testified that she's only registered folks in election. She hasn't used the forms. She hasn't talked to a voter about the forms. THE COURT: I don't think her opinions qualify under 0 based upon that objection. MR. SPIVA: Okay. I mean she has gone to two trainings on this and has been a poll worker in another election and is going to be a poll worker on Tuesday, so if she's not qualified to know how this is going to affect

45 CERTIFICATE I, Antoinette M. Franks, a court-approved proofreader, do hereby certify that the foregoing is a correct transcript from the official electronic sound recording of the proceedings in the above-entitled matter, to the best of my professional skills and abilities. TRANSCRIPTIONIST(S: Antoinette M. Franks, CET- Frances Marcu, CDLT- Frankie Milfred, CET-0 Lisa Hulm, CET- Jean Knowlton, CDLT- Gina Gattone, CET- Kim Ganzert, CDLT- Amanda Self, CDLT- Karen Raile, CDLT- Melissa Looney, CET-0 Brenda Wakelin, CDLT- Riva Portman, CDLT- Aliza Chodoff, CDLT- ANTOINETTE M. FRANKS, CET- September, Proofreader

46 STATE OF NEW HAMPSHIRE HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY SUPERIOR COURT NORTH LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS OF NH, et al., vs. Plaintiffs, WILLIAM M. GARDNER & GORDAN MACDONALD, Defendants. Superior Court Case No. --CV-00 Manchester, New Hampshire September, : a.m. APPEARANCES: HEARING ON PETITION FOR PRELIMINARY INJUNCTION BEFORE THE HONORABLE KENNETH C. BROWN JUDGE OF THE SUPERIOR COURT For the Plaintiffs: William E. Christie, Esq. S. Amy Spencer, Esq. SHAHEEN & GORDON, P.A. P.O. Box 0 Storrs Street Concord, NH 00 - and - Bruce V. Spiva, Esq. Amanda R. Calais, Esq. John Devaney PERKINS COIE 00 th Street, NW Suite 00 Washington, DC and - Henry R. Klementowicz, Esq. Steven J. Dutton MCLANE MIDDLETON 00 Elm Street th Floor Manchester, NH 0

47 THE COURT: Sure. Welcome back. MS. SHUMP: Thank you. THE COURT: You're still under oath. Okay? MS. EDWARDS: Ms. Shump, I'm going to get those exhibits out of your way. ANN SHUMP, WITNESS FOR THE PLAINTIFFS, PREVIOUSLY SWORN CROSS-EXAMINATION CONTINUED BY MS. EDWARDS: Q Ms. Shump, do you remember that the last time we were chatting, that you were testifying about whether or not an individual would have to read all of the verifiable action of domicile form while they were registering to vote? A Yes. Q Okay. And I just put in front of you Joint Exhibit, which is in Joint Exhibit Volume. And your question to me, which I don't usually answer questions, but I'm providing you with the document, was is that the form I have to put my signature at on the bottom. A Yes. Q Do you remember the question? A Yes. Q So this is the form that we were talking about, I believe; is that correct? A Yes, I -- yes. There's another form too, but I think

48 0 this is the one we were talking about. Q And with respect to this form, is there anything on Joint Exhibit that says an individual has to read that whole form while they're standing in front of the supervisor registering to vote at the polls on Election Day? A No, although -- no. Although, there is a place they have to sign. Q But that's after they bring the document home, right? A I assume so, but it has not yet been made clear to me. Q And you haven't asked that question yet? A I have. Q And no one has told you whether or not they have to sign that form at the polling place? A Because we have an election coming up in five days, and I asked this question about three days ago, I was told that this will not be used -- I mean, it will be used to hand out at this current election, but not be enforced. So I decided, I chose not to push it until after November th. A You're having a meeting tomorrow morning -- A Yes. Q -- that includes a member of the Secretary of State's Office, correct? A Yes, I am. Q Will you be asking this question during that meeting? A I will, because I don't know if I will be able to talk